Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

What existing rights are being debated? Seriously question because the equality act has been in place since 2005.

Yes please @Xanthangum

Thread here Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4182056-Mumsnet-says-Trans-Rights-are-Human-Rights

Maybe read some past threads on the subject and make your own mind up?

I’m sure people don’t want to have the same conversations over and over.

Trans but non-binary? I have literally seen it all now.

For what it's worth and I am aware that I am an adult woman and my views don't matter but I find cis a very offensive and hostile word. Don't refer to me as cis.

What is non binary trans?

I'll bite.

I think the majority of mumsnetters are not transphobic and are raising valid concerns about some of the things that trans rights activists are campaigning for, specifically when there is an associated negative impact on the rights of women and girls.

I have noticed some opinions that I would describe as transphobic but I don't think they are the majority view.

I respect your right to identify how you like, call yourself what you like and use whatever pronouns you like.

I would like the same courtesy to be extended to me; I don't want to be described as "cis", or a "pregnant person", I am simply a woman.

I have a huge problem with the erasure of the word woman, particularly when it comes to services for biological females (pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding support). I have also been abused and censored for expressing that opinion. Luckily mumsnet is a safe space to voice my concerns and to find others who share my concerns.

I would like mumsnet to be a safe space for respectful debate; unfortunately it gets very heated and I would understand if trans people did not feel comfortable posting here, which is regrettable.

I believe that the moderators are very much "on it" when it comes to deleting posts that break guidelines and I recently saw that they deleted posts that misgendered a trans person. So I think they are trying to ensure the discussion is not transphobic, while also protecting free speech - no easy task!

What's with all these posts

“Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic”

What rights and legal protections do trans people in the UK have that you think will be removed?

They already have the same human rights as everyone else.

Yet they demand the complete removal of all female sex based protections in law.

How can one be both trans (opposite gender) and non-binary (ie subscribing to neither gender)?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

Generally speaking on here, people talk to you, not about you, so pronouns are a bit irrelevant. Given that our usernames are often not related to our sex, mine for example, nobody on mumsnet knows (or cares) whether you're male or female, or how you identify - with the possible exception of those who rock up stating "Man here, here's my manly opinion..." which tends to elicit a raised eyebrow/meme or two as we've all been mansplained to enough times.

If you're actually interested in reading more about the gender critical side of the debate, there are literally (and I mean that in the old fashioned literal sense) thousands of threads on here to start you off. Feminists are pretty bored of having to explain their opinions to those who wilfully misunderstand, so until you've spent some time listening to others' opinions and ideas you might find that people are less willing to listen to yours.

This goes for any new poster who arrives with a big fanfare and demands to be pandered to, not specifically those who announce themselves as trans or non-binary. We're also pretty bored of explaining things only to find them screenshotted on twitter for TRAs to pile on and denounce them transphobic for caring about women's rights.

So in summary, welcome, read more than you post to start with and open your mind, but not so far that your brain falls out.

It's not a question of friendliness. This is a board for feminist discussion. So we use it to discuss issues that affect females, not to roll out the red carpet for trans people. We don't argue against trans rights but for women's rights. By the same token, I wouldn't go on to the Black Mumsnetters board or onto a forum for trans people and expect them to centre my experience as a mixed-race woman because those are spaces that specific groups have set up to discuss their issues.

Oh beg your pardon xe/xem

Bloody hell autocorrect does not like those pronouns!

I too am puzzled about being non binary AND Trans
Still, you do you OP

Don't cis me.

Hi OP - welcome to MN!

Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

I don't see death and rape threats being left standing on MN, whereas I have on twitter. If you feel safe on twitter, I can't see why you would feel less safe here.

WRT online safety, there was a site hack here a few years ago (Jeffreygate) where some users passwords were compromised but I think its as safe as any other place on the internet. But I think it goes without saying that everyone should be careful on the internet and a publicly accessible forum can only be so 'safe'.

MNHQ get DDOS attacks quite frequently, but they do pretty well considering.

This goes for any new poster who arrives with a big fanfare and demands to be pandered to

Interesting parallel as we've seen even this week how hard some lurkers can find it to dip their toes in here, isn't it...

WRT online safety, there was a site hack here a few years ago (Jeffreygate) where some users passwords were compromised but I think its as safe as any other place on the internet. But I think it goes without saying that everyone should be careful on the internet and a publicly accessible forum can only be so 'safe'.

Good point. Also worth mentioning that there was an intern called Emma a while back who doxxed users on the Feminist board. I think MNHQ had to report itself to the ICO.

And yes, in terms of safety, there was an intern a while back who shared a load of personal info from feminist posters so that trans rights activists could track them down in the real world and have them fired etc. I was one of them, but luckily I’m self employed so although they were able to target my business they couldn’t get me fired.

I’d be careful how much personal info you give away if you’re worried about safety online OP.

X post GCA

I think this is a safe, friendly place to those who enter wanting actual informed, respectful debate.

Have a read of some threads to get the feel.

Don't Cis anyone though, lots of people here (including me) find it offensive.

MN are quick to moderate these boards so you'll be hard pressed to find anything transphobic, despite what Twitter says!

I think if you engage in good faith discussions you will be extended that courtesy back.

Feminism is for females, so the focus in this section is concerns of female sexed people of any or no gender. Just like a paper crafts section wouldn't focus on crochet, or a breastfeeding section on gravy recipes. Unfortunately people sometimes misinterpret women talking about their sex specific needs and concerns as being transphobic which can lead to antagonism.

I hope you enjoy your visit to mumsnet.