Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

Safe? How offended would you be by someone handing you a grip? That happens a lot.

I think the vast majority of mumsnet is transphobic. They resist using peoples preferred pronouns, deadname people, and assume that trans people want access to single sex spaces to rape women

This is FWR. We centre women and girls in our feminism, including those who are female but identify as non-binary or trans men, but we’re not a hive mind. Many of us reject the label ‘cis’ and consider it offensive. We object to other people labelling our identity as much as you do. We don’t generally censor our feelings or opinions because another use might be upset by them (and if you think that’s bad stay away from AIBU!) but posts are strictly moderated here compared to other parts of the site and genuine transphobia is reported and deleted. There are a number of trans posters as well as the parents, partners, siblings and friends of trans people here.
If you’re genuinely interested in knowing what goes on, then read some threads. There’s one called ‘Break It Down For Me.’
However, if what you’re here for is to drop a goady post and to then run back to Twitter crying transphobia because someone disagrees with you then you may find Mumsnet ‘intolerant.’

Thelovely
I agree that would be unacceptable. Perhaps you could share some of these posts that you’ve seen?

Just because you think so doesn't mean it is @TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

Well the first 2 would be deleted if it were to happen and the last one isn’t true either

Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space?

We're all completely different, unconnected people. Some of us are friendly people, some aren't. Pretty much everyone on this board is passionate about women's rights.

Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans?

No not in the slightest

Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”?

Yes. In particular protecting the sex based protections of women who have been raped or sexually assaulted.

Do you think the term cis should be censored?

I have a preferred noun and it's 'woman' - I'd rather be referred to as a woman not a cis woman please.

Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person?

Assuming you are posting this from the safety of your home I'm sure you are quite safe.

It is perfectly right that people are able to discuss how the law is written, applied and fails and how it isn't enforced for certain vulnerable groups. Or groups which should be safeguarded are being left exposed or worse still actively targetted, radicalised or exploited.

It is right that we should be able to debate ethics, morality and weaknesses in law and potential law.

It is right that we should be able to discuss abuses of power and where people are being silenced by powerful groups. Especially if they deliberately misrepresent the law.

Do you take issue with these things?

If so would you like to expand on why women in particular should not be allowed to discuss these things on the internet?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4181342-Non-binary-confused-and-sad

@Faffertea

On the first page a poster saying their daughters prefer to be called 'they' but then goes on to use 'She' the rest of the post

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

I think the vast majority of mumsnet is transphobic. They resist using peoples preferred pronouns, deadname people, and assume that trans people want access to single sex spaces to rape women

I think that's a (vocal) minority and not the majority.

A reminder to OP that this is the Feminism chat board, formerly known as Feminism and Women’s Rights (FWR) so what we're interested in discussing here is feminism, or issues seen through a feminist lens.

If you want to talk about something to do with feminism, then this is the right place. Discussing whether MN is “trans friendly” doesn’t really come under that rubric IMO, but clearly you might see it differently.

Perhaps you would like to come back and explain why you think this question is even relevant? Because I’m just not seeing it.

What's with all these posts

Mumsnet told them on twitter that everyone is welcome to post here, and that they remove 'cis' if it's used to be deliberately offensive but it's not necessarily a banned word.

So now people feel the need to come and rub these policies in our face as if we haven't know about them for the last few years already, and to EdUcAtE us, I guess.

Not really relevant on a feminism chat board, to be honest.
Personally, I think gender is oppression so I'm not interested in any gender based conversation. I am really interested in women's sex based rights- it took me until late in life to realise how important they are, I'm ashamed to admit.

I don't know why my post was deleted. Can we not mention Enid Blyton now? Fed up of this place today.

This thread is like groundhog day as it seems suspiciously like this one: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4182056-Mumsnet-says-Trans-Rights-are-Human-Rights

I wonder why new members think it's okay to plough into a feminism chat board about trans rights. Weird.

Thelovely
I haven’t read that thread fully but I think the post you’re referring to on the first page is a poster talking about 2 people she knows who have asked to be referred to as ‘they.’ I agree that referring to them as ‘she’ when they’ve requested ‘they’ pronouns but firstly you have no idea how that poster refers to them irl rather than anonymously online and secondly I don’t think that equates to what you claimed in your post. Presumably you also post on 4chan, Kiwifarms etc to object to the transphobia there (which I believe can be very unpleasant).
Also, please don’t @ other posters, it’s considered bad manners.

Argh, for an edit button! Should say:
I agree using she not they can seem rude or disrespectful.

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

And yes, in terms of safety, there was an intern a while back who shared a load of personal info from feminist posters so that trans rights activists could track them down in the real world and have them fired etc. I was one of them, but luckily I’m self employed so although they were able to target my business they couldn’t get me fired.

I’d be careful how much personal info you give away if you’re worried about safety online OP.

I'm mostly worried in the case of transphobic comments, like misgendering, threats, and other harassment that I've recieved online elsewhere. I don't provide my real name, location, or other identifying information online.

I do however find it important to provide information like my pronouns and gender identity in the hopes of progressing feminism going forward. Everyone should be able to find pride in their identity, no matter how they label or present themselves, and even something as small as adding those labels can help others who may be questioning or something similar.

Welcome to Mumsnet OP.

Please don't use cis, ta.

I'm mostly worried in the case of transphobic comments, like misgendering, threats, and other harassment that I've recieved online elsewhere. I don't provide my real name, location, or other identifying information online.

No one on these boards will threaten or harass you. They will ask rigorous questions though. The main threat on here is, as has been said, doxxing, so make sure you don't use an email address that can identify you and don't give away information about yourself, as that is what the TRA intern on here used to try to get women threatened online and sacked from their jobs.

I think that's a (vocal) minority and not the majority

@AnotherEmma I do hope its just the very vocal few. I did know a person in real life that posted on Facebook to 'gather the troops' and join mumsnet for the sole purpose of stirring up trans hate. I say 'did' as I've since blocked them after they were asked to leave our sports team for abusing a trans member. So maybe it is just the hateful few.

@Nightinghawk ....against trans people’s rights...
Exactly what rights are you talking about?

Welcome, Nightinghawk.

If you identify as non-binary, may I respectfully ask what your interest in feminism is, and why you believe you know what's best to progress it? Thank you.

@Faffertea you asked for examples, so what were you expecting me to do but provide examples?

I used the @ as its an allowed feature and see lots of others use it. Including yourself