Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

@Winesalot - me too

Everyone has a gender identity, there are 60+ years of research into gender identity and when children express theirs. That's gender stereotypes. And most women here reject them. They are the root cause of all sorts of oppression.

I don't have a gender identity. I am me. Me is female. Twas always thus!

Oh merry, you daft sausage. The girls play with dolls and the boys toy cars.

Cis people have gender identities too, trans people didn't invent it, and it's written about extensively with no reference to trans people at all going back multiple decades

Lots of things have been extensively written about, it doesn't make them true. I don't have a gender identity, for example.

If everyone has a 'gender identity' (I don't agree, but for the sake of debate...) then how does the false binary of 'Cis' and 'trans' work for people who identify as agender or non binary, or who may have some 'masculine' characteristics and some 'feminine'?

Do people seriously have nothing better to do than to comb through the site looking for companies to go crying to?

@Winesalot see screen shot up thread

@PolarnOPirate

Otherwise referring to people who are "not transgender" can get a bit difficult. Talking about cis men and women is a lot easier. Although I know some intersex advocacy groups prefer ipsogender rather than cisgender.

As a woman, I am not ‘not transgender’, just as I am not a ‘non-male’. Funnily enough there’s a word for people like me: woman!

I don’t understand why people can’t just wear whatever and be whoever they want, and accept that they are the sex they were born in? Can you explain that to me OP? Doesn’t it completely play into gender stereotypes?

No because trans people have and always will exist, no matter what the stereotypes are. They exist in indigenous societies, and throughout history. Why do you not accept that gender identity is as diverse as humanity? We're not binary beings, never have been. www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

MostIneptThatEverStepped I know!

Everyone has a gender identity? Can’t believe you would just throw agender and genderfree people under the bus like that @ool0n

I don’t have a gender identity, and I don’t have a soul either. For the same reasons.

This is frankly weird science denial to me as it is part of objective material reality that children assert an identity, and we know from the failure of conversion therapy on trans people, that it is pretty much fixed for them

Then I'd love your theory on de-transitioning and how that is possible if the above is correct.

Spoiler, its not correct.

No. Can’t find one.

I'm pretty certain that in an indigenous society while there may be trans people they don't spend their days pondering it.

Considering ones gender is a highly privileged thing to do.

@ool0n I completely accept that trans people exist, and that their identity is fundamental to who they are.

What I don’t understand is why some people seem to think that erases sex as an axis of oppression of women?

Why do you not accept that gender identity is as diverse as humanity? We're not binary beings, never have been.

We do accept gender is exactly as diverse as humanity! It's sex which is binary, not gender.
(You do realise MN is primarily a parenting board... we tend to know quite a lot about sex, oddly enough)

We're not binary beings, never have been

As a species, we are LITERALLY BINARY. We are a binary sexed mammalian species of bi-pedals. We always have been.

OP like many others I do not have a gender identity.

Non gendered people rights are human rights
We exist
Were valid

No because trans people have and always will exist, no matter what the stereotypes are. They exist in indigenous societies, and throughout history. Why do you not accept that gender identity is as diverse as humanity? We're not binary beings, never have been. You are mixing up a number of things there!

Nobody here has said that trans people don't exist. Throwing that out only makes you sound daft, uninformed.

As I keep on saying many of us have trans friends, colleagues and family members. We are not all clueless bigots, no matter what you may have read, or are trying to gather proof of.

Every society has it's own sex based roles - gender stereotypes. And they change over time - see the history of stockings and high heeled shoes.

Sex is binary. The expression of human behaviour is not.

Everyone has a gender identity

I don't

Homophobic people used to insist they don't have a sexuality ("We're not straight, we're normal").

How is this different?

because trans people have and always will exist

Again, no denials here. Trans people have always existed.

@yeahbutnaw

Homophobic people used to insist they don't have a sexuality ("We're not straight, we're normal").

How is this different?

Perhaps you could explain what gender identity is and how it is asserted?

The explanation seems to be taking a while.

@yeahbutnaw

Homophobic people used to insist they don't have a sexuality ("We're not straight, we're normal").

How is this different?

Sexuality? Genderality?

And I don't think I've ever heard a homophobe say they don't have a sexuality, they aren't asexual, they are heterosexual.

You are talking about 2 entirely different concepts.

@ErrolTheDragon

Cis and trans enforces a false binary on gender. It excludes people who are agender or nonbinary people who don't also identify as trans, surely, OP?

There are cis agender and nonbinary people, and plenty are comfortable talking about themselves. What matters is self identification and the ability to label oneself. But generally the conversation of "cis" vs "trans", outside of denotations of gender identity and congruity, is the aspect of social class specifically regarding that (in)congruity and the complexities within, especially those connected to what is recorded on birth certificates.

Personally, I am nonbinary and identify with trans since my birth certificate has no nonbinary marker, but at times I do, at least partially, identify with my assigned gender at birth, so I could consider myself both trans and cis at the same time.

Gender fluidity and other aspects of nonbinarity are important to take into account, but these labels existing do not inherently enforce a false binary. The idea that antonyms are exact opposites without any grey area or other alternatives for antonyms is where the false binary comes from, not the words themselves.

Love malt loaf, and jammy dodgers for that matter.

Essentials for a nice afternoon spread. Yum.