Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

This is so confusing

Of course trans rights are human rights
Of course non binary people are valid
Of course this gender identity thing is extremely diverse, it is based on personality isn’t it?
Of course sex is binary - and it takes a male and a female to make a baby.

What are people arguing about? Has anyone said anything against this? Which weirdo is it that disputes this?

Ahh Joody, I have now looked it up. I don't think it is for me. All grains seem to give me a bit of trouble except rice. I have weird allergies.

@yeahbutnaw

Homophobic people used to insist they don't have a sexuality ("We're not straight, we're normal").

How is this different?

Asexual people exist and are valid.

Suspect a lot of "gender identity" is just a result of gendered socialisation/roles. There may be research around people feeling like they have a gender identity, but there's also a lot of research around the impact of gendered socialisation from (even before) birth, and as yet no definitive proof that any of us are born naturally aligned to gender roles.

As a feminist my fight is that we were not born to conform to gender stereotypes, but society has attempted (overtly or not) to mould us to them.

So no, I don't have a gender identity. I have a sex. And as a result of being born that sex I have been subject to certain pressures, some of which have shaped my personality, likes and abilities. I can see how this may be mistaken for a gender identity, but it's not.

I would like future generations not to be subject to those pressures, and believe a world free from gender would achieve that. You may believe more genders would achieve the same. We differ here, and as a society we will need to work out a plan forward.

What matters is self identification and the ability to label oneself

Suits me. I'm a woman.

Celibate people exist, and are valid.

What matters is self identification and the ability to label oneself

Ok, great! I’m not cis, I don’t have a gender identity, and I am a woman, which to me means an adult human female. Thanks for respecting that

@Winesalot

Everyone has a gender identity, there are 60+ years of research into gender identity

No. I have a personality and a sexed body. I have forever fought against stereotyping.

Hth.

Your defn of "gender identity" must be different to mine then, as it has nothing to do with stereotypes. It existed when the stereotype was that boys like pink, and boys saying they're boys didn't make that stereotype more or less true.

How is a human not valid?

Your defn of "gender identity" must be different to mine then

Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by it?

I'm not toasting any flavour of malt loaf (I usually buy Aldi 'cos dairy free). That's disgusting.

I'll second putting marg on it though. Not flora though. Vitalite.

I think @ool0n that is precisely what I was trying to explain.

Sex is immutable.

Gender expression changes over time, geography etc.

What matters is self identification and the ability to label oneself

Not if that removes language that people need to protect rights and analyse inequality and oppression.

Everyone has a gender identity, there are 60+ years of research into gender identity and when children express theirs. Usually around 2-4 years old.
Interesting. Between the ages of 2 and about 7 I would say, DS2 was very very into "traditional" girls things. His favourite colour was pink. His favourite socks were pink fleecy ones with rabbits on (he cried when he outgrew them and they are still in his sock drawer at 14). When he needed a new mattress he chose the pink one and was upset when we had to put a sheet over it because he couldn't see it anymore
Etc etc. In short, if i believed in such nonsense, I might have said he was female gender.
Hes 14 now and very definitely male sex and gender, although he has almost waist length hair.

At a similar age both my dc wanted to be dogs and would often play 'fetch' and drink water from a bowl on the floor.
I'm not sure that behaviour as 2-4 year olds has any bearing on what children become or indeed want to become.

Anyway. Back to malt loaf. Toasted you say? I'll have to try it! Also how do you slice it without it becoming a sad looking squished lump? I tend to buy the sliced one for ease, but its not always available.

Your defn of "gender identity" must be different to mine then, as it has nothing to do with stereotypes

Why won't you share your definition of gender identity?

Have another trans rights are human rights from me!

I don't know anyone on this board who would argue otherwise.

I don’t think I have a gender ID. I tend not to naval gaze and ponder my essence...

No because trans people have and always will exist, no matter what the stereotypes are. They exist in indigenous societies, and throughout history.

Yes, because sex-based stereotypes have no doubt always existed. Can you describe what the word gender means without using stereotypes to define it?

It existed when the stereotype was that boys like pink, and boys saying they're boys didn't make that stereotype more or less true.

You know, of course, that pink was actually a colour for boys at one time in British history though. You must, to have made that connection.

What is a 'female gender identity'?

*What matters is self identification and the ability to label oneself And of course, that doesn't count of you are a gender critical female!

@Liquorishtoffee

Only those with a current burning grudge agenda.

Im very fond of malt loaf. It's very low fat which means it's perfect to slather butter on to.

Do people seriously have nothing better to do than to comb through the site looking for companies to go crying to?

No.