Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

After I had a post last week deleted just a few posts away from another poster jabbering in about cis I clarified with HQ ... a post will be deleted of the user aims it a specific poster or its used in a derogatory way. Like others I find it offensive full stop but hey ho.

But yup for the record I agree Trans rights are human rights. Let's not forget that just because an individual wants or needs something that's not the same as a human right. And if your right clashes with another persons safety there's a debate required. And let's not forget to make sure the EEA isn't misinterpreted when we're checking what rights an individual has.

@PronounssheRa

Ah so this has come off the back of mimmymummy trying to pressurise MN advertisers.......... again.

Let's remind ourselves
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

Now, I don't know about anyone else on here but I have never tried to have a transwoman prosecuted on spurious grounds.

Deemed not criminal, but you think it is OK to post the picture of a minor who happens to be transgender on Twitter? I thought the term "safeguarding" was used a lot on here, exposing children to potential harm by doxing - posting pictures of them - like that is appalling. People's children shouldn't be brought into arguments on the internet.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia

You'd be hard pushed to find anyone on here who disagrees that trans people should have all the same human rights as any other member of their sex, plus additional protection from discrimination based on their transgender status.

Quite right. And quite correct.

Also, on a personal note; I've told people close to me not to accept racial slurs. As well as the modern slur "Cis". It's very offensive. Often more so than the racial slurs flung left, right and centre.

Because for many people (including MNetters) its a double whammy.

You might be okay with labels, OP but I'm not. I need one word to describe what I am. Woman.

There are 33,000 peer reviewed papers on Google Scholar that use the term "cisgender"

Each one of them just as offensive as the last because the concept of identifying with an oppressive concept which is used to restrict women's basic human rights (access to education, employment, legal agency, political representation) is offensive.

Yes, this uses language to make it impossible to say trans women are women, trans men are men.

Are you able to explain what those phrases mean in a way that doesn't rely on the idea that everyone has a gender identity? Do you understand why women find the enforcement of gender identity so offensive?

Trans rights are human rights, of course.
I’ve never seen anyone say anything to the contrary on MN.

But this is the feminism board, and what we discuss here are women’s rights.

Of course a trans rights are human rights.

Despite its reputation as transphobic, MN is not like certain other places where trans people are referred to as "it" etc

Trans women are trans women.
Trans men are trans men.
Non-binary people are non-binary.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

*@RowanMumsnet* Visitors know that a lot of us don't agree with TWAW and use the statement to goad others on this board and get us banned. Yes, people are entitled to believe it it just as I and many others are entitled not to believe it and I am entitled to state that opinion. Why on earth you felt the need to quote my comment to highlight that fact? No impressed.

This.

Presumably women are equally entitled to TWATW and use the accompanying arguments.

Or we could all have a proper discussion using our words, instead of acronyms and mantras.

sometimes they come onto conflict. When that happens we need to discuss it and work out solutions

Yes, a grown up discussion, not slogans and #nodebate

MN is pretty much the only space on the interweb where we are even allowed these discussions without a pile on.

Yup a.so buying Soreen tomorrow

I am not understanding the reference to malt loaf, what am I missing?

Although cis is allowed, I have noticed that when someone uses it, we point out (those of us who do) that it is offensive and usually the poster desists, which is good.

The reason I hate terms such as cis, is that this and other terms are imposed and the term woman is sufficient to state what one is talking about.

@JoodyBlue

I was going to leave this thread but facts are important

but you think it is OK to post the picture of a minor who happens to be transgender on Twitter?

The reason the case was thrown out was because the minor had already in effect been outed by their parent who was already posting about it on social media, including photos of the child.

Take it up with the judge if you don't agree, it wasn't my judgement

I am still confused as to the point of this thread though? Are we discussing anything new?

It doesn't seem like anything controversial. Yes, we do know that there are people who use the terms and word perfectly say the mantras that you, OP, are using.

And every single person on this earth is valid. Why would you think that people on this Feminist board disagree?

Not sure what you are aiming for?

Of course trans rights are human rights, because trans people are human. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest otherwise tbh.

When I’ve seen deletions for people using “cis” it’s in the context of an ongoing discussion and only happens when the poster effectively uses it to forcibly misgender someone by continuing to use it beyond when theyve been requested not to. The rules here are that we must respect how people see their gender identies regardless if we agree or not with the validity, therefore, using “cis” is misgendendering when applied to women who do not have a gender identity, and so it’s disallowed. You won’t get deleted for a single use of cis. You’re doing it right now, OP, so it self evidently doesn’t happen.

I am still confused as to the point of this thread though? Are we discussing anything new? Recent tweets, defending MN from Lil OJ and Mimmybirthingparent, amongst others

Should cisgender people openly debate what rights trans people should have?

Discuss.

@ool0n

Yes trans rights are human rights.

Do you recognise that as with any other demographic, what amounts to a legitimate “right” which as a society we believe a group should have, is a legitimate topic of debate?

I’m perpetually stunned by the way the trans rights campaign seems to think that if the transgender community wish for something, it is their right that it should happen and you’re a bigot if you think otherwise. Literally no other group has that privilege; they have to demonstrate that it is fair they should have that right.

I've just discovered Soreen has brought out a new vegan range. Why did none of you lot tell me?!

I thought it was only banana flavour that was vegan! And now they've added vegan chocolate malt loaf. Someone tell me which supermarket I can find it in. If I can buy vegan soreen at the end, I'll go on a ruddy 5k run for it.