Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

Cis and trans enforces a false binary on gender. It excludes people who are agender or nonbinary people who don't also identify as trans, surely, OP?

So very grateful to @MNHQ for navigating all the negativity on Twitter and allowing us to have these discussions.

I looked at the links posted in the OP and the sheer misinformed hatred made my eyeballs bleed.

So to sum up for OP:
Yes of course we all agree trans right are human rights.
Yes some posters who claim they were banned solely for using the prefix 'cis' were telling porkies.

Who'da thunk it.🤷‍♀️

Otherwise referring to people who are "not transgender" can get a bit difficult. Talking about cis men and women is a lot easier. Although I know some intersex advocacy groups prefer ipsogender rather than cisgender.

As a woman, I am not ‘not transgender’, just as I am not a ‘non-male’. Funnily enough there’s a word for people like me: woman!

I don’t understand why people can’t just wear whatever and be whoever they want, and accept that they are the sex they were born in? Can you explain that to me OP? Doesn’t it completely play into gender stereotypes?

@yeahbutnaw

Should cisgender people openly debate what rights trans people should have?

Discuss.

Hey.... it isn't midnight. I thought we only got visitors demanding 'discuss' around midnight!

Yeahbutnaw you cant tell people what to discuss.

But if I had to, Id look at both sides.

Do trans people have any rights to discuss cis rights?

What about those who arent trans or cis?

Trans rights are human rights
Women's rights are human rights
Trans women are trans women
Trans men are trans men
Non binary people have sexed bodies however they identify
*
And all of them are valid.*

@PotholeParadies

Chocolate malt loaf you say?
That's the best thing I've seen all day.
At least since I tried a chocolate chip hot cross bun from M&S.

@yeahbutnaw

Should cisgender people openly debate what rights trans people should have?

Discuss.

Well yes, obviously.

If you’re going to be like that, should trans women discuss what rights natal women should have in terms of single sex spaces? Should trans women get to dictate whether and to what extent biology is e basis on which women are oppressed?

@yeahbutnaw

Should cisgender people openly debate what rights trans people should have?

Discuss.

Alternatively

Should tarnspoeple determine what rights women should give over?

Cos, you see, women are not discussong the rights transpeople should have.

We are discussing the loss of our own hard won rights.

We are discussing women's rights. And describing the assault upon them, the effects that assault has on every day life for women.

Women discussing women's rights.

What's wrong with that?

@Xanthangum

TWAW is an entirely legitimate viewpoint and users are welcome to hold it

Yup, I agree. Some people find it very reassuring to believe that wine becomes the blood of Jesus. I don't agree personally, but I would never be so rude as to say someone else is wrong to believe it.

But don’t people get put on the naughty step/bounced for holding the opposing ‘legitimate viewpoint’?

@merrymouse

There are 33,000 peer reviewed papers on Google Scholar that use the term "cisgender"

Each one of them just as offensive as the last because the concept of identifying with an oppressive concept which is used to restrict women's basic human rights (access to education, employment, legal agency, political representation) is offensive.

Yes, this uses language to make it impossible to say trans women are women, trans men are men.

Are you able to explain what those phrases mean in a way that doesn't rely on the idea that everyone has a gender identity? Do you understand why women find the enforcement of gender identity so offensive?

Everyone has a gender identity, there are 60+ years of research into gender identity and when children express theirs. Usually around 2-4 years old. There's a paper by Robert J Stoller from the 60s describing how children assert their identity and it is relatively immutable from that point on. Much like sexuality when someone expresses theirs it is fixed. This is frankly weird science denial to me as it is part of objective material reality that children assert an identity, and we know from the failure of conversion therapy on trans people, that it is pretty much fixed for them.

Cis people have gender identities too, trans people didn't invent it, and it's written about extensively with no reference to trans people at all going back multiple decades.

And more importantly... what did Soreen say?

@PurpleHoodie can you toast it?

I love Soreen and thoroughly approve of them advertising with Mumsnet

as always Id be very interested to know what specific human rights trans people dont have

@Xanthangum thank you

Everyone has a gender identity,

No, everyone does not.

I love it when I'm told I do have a gender identity

I bleedin well don't. My sex is female and that's that.

I do not have a gender identity.

I am a woman. I am female.

Everyone has a gender identity, there are 60+ years of research into gender identity

No. I have a personality and a sexed body. I have forever fought against stereotyping.

Hth.

Soreen is brilliant in a packed lunch. Handy with school start up next week.

There's a paper by Robert J Stoller from the 60s describing how children assert their identity

Please do share. How do they assert their identity? I'm sure you are able to explain what this means as it seems so obvious to you. Please give examples of the difference between a male and female gender identity.

I know nothing about this Soreen thing. I am off to google.