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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

999 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/03/2021 10:10

Just seen on Twitter.

Will post links

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
picklemewalnuts · 03/03/2021 15:26

Hogwash.

yourhairiswinterfire · 03/03/2021 15:29

Defence explaining to judges how a transwomen with a GRC could have undergone no medical treatment whatsoever. Judges questioning what 'living as' a woman means

Please judge, get an answer for this...what is 'living as a woman'?

OvaHere · 03/03/2021 15:29

Yes we all want an answer to that one.

Ninkanink · 03/03/2021 15:30

You are assuming that any sort of medical transition is required in order to get a GRC. This is not the case. Transition can be social only so males who have had no surgery and no hormone treatment can get a GRC and, as I understand this thread, will then by default be placed in the women's estate.

THIS is what we have been banging on about for so long!! THIS is why women should NOT ever be compelled to just budge up, make room, ‘be kind.’

Further to this, even if the relevant individual has had surgery (the vast majority don’t) or taken/takes hormones, or has done any number of social things to apparently ‘live as a woman’ the Law MUST, in order to protect those vulnerable, not just in prison but in any setting, be clear that biological fact remains, that sex is the only reliable and constant standard. Sex segregation must persist, without exception.

Sorry, I know this might not the the right thread for this, but it vexes me that so many people still don’t understand the reality of what we’re dealing with and what it means in real terms, in real life, for all women and girls, and children.

GemmeFatale · 03/03/2021 15:32

I realise I’m sleep deprived but I genuinely cannot follow what the defence here actually is.

OvaHere · 03/03/2021 15:34

@GemmeFatale

I realise I’m sleep deprived but I genuinely cannot follow what the defence here actually is.
I think it's that the inner feelings of male people in prison matter more than the safety of female people in prison.
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/03/2021 15:35

Judges asking for sources of authority of what "reassigning other attributes of sex" means in the definition of the gender reassignment protective characteristic. Defence says getting a GRC must fall under that. /47

OP posts:
Erkrie · 03/03/2021 15:35

I'd like to know what living as a woman means. Just to check I'm, ermm...womaning right 🤔

Cailleach1 · 03/03/2021 15:38

@2021Vision

I must be missing something here regarding them knowing how many TW they have. I thought someone who transitions need to take drugs for life. Surely prisoners don't have access to their own supply in their cells so these drugs must be ordered administered somehow? (who pays for this!?) They will then know. Sorry if I am being thick here.
Maybe one doesn't need to do a blessed thing to themselves and can just state they now identify as the other sex.

I suspect one could whimsically state they aspire to do something tomorrow to completely transform themselves into the other sex, and tomorrow just never seems to come.

Gabcsika · 03/03/2021 15:38

@GemmeFatale

I realise I’m sleep deprived but I genuinely cannot follow what the defence here actually is.
I think it's going to boil down to the fact that it's not for the defence to answer "what is a woman" a GRC is a GRC, and legally their hands are tied, even if it's a really shitty, bonkers, nonsense piece of legislation.

"We don't know who has a GRC because we're not allowed to ask"
"We don't know what living as a woman means, but if you have a GRC you're doing it - that for the panel to decide, not us"
"We didn't write the law that you don't need any change to get a GRC"
"Not our fault bruv"

TheABC · 03/03/2021 15:39

Watching the comments from this trial feels like the last three years of FWR board, on speed.

stuckinatrap · 03/03/2021 15:40

@TheABC

Watching the comments from this trial feels like the last three years of FWR board, on speed.
So true!
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/03/2021 15:40

Seems to be conceded by the defence / MOJ that some aspects of the work carried out by prisons are services. Therefore, the EA would apply.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/03/2021 15:41

Judge wants to know the reason why defence made the concession that single-sex exceptions apply in prison for the reason that its a service - rather than saying they apply because its a public function. Defence to reply in writing /49

OP posts:
yourhairiswinterfire · 03/03/2021 15:42

@GemmeFatale

I realise I’m sleep deprived but I genuinely cannot follow what the defence here actually is.
It's a mess.

'Single sex exemptions don't even apply to us, but E Wing is us enforcing single sex exemptions.'

'We don't need to consider the EA...but women prisoners can't discriminate against TW, because EA.'

'Only safe TW are moved to the female estate and are supervised.'
(Some must have been wearing invisibility cloaks when they sexually assaulted female inmates then...)

'Women have been sexually assaulted by TW prisoners, but this doesn't mean that women are at risk of being sexually assaulted by TW prisoners.'

Confused

'

highame · 03/03/2021 15:42

Judge wants to know the reason why defence made the concession that single-sex exceptions apply in prison for the reason that its a service - rather than saying they apply because its a public function. Defence to reply in writing /49 There's interesting

Signalbox · 03/03/2021 15:43

All those people who say there is absolutely no conflict of rights between transwomen and women could not look at this case and maintain that position could they?

LangClegsInSpace · 03/03/2021 15:44

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Judge wants to know the reason why defence made the concession that single-sex exceptions apply in prison for the reason that its a service - rather than saying they apply because its a public function. Defence to reply in writing /49
Yes I don't understand what difference this makes.
TinyTroubleMaker · 03/03/2021 15:45

Signalbox I can see them arguing prisons are 'special'. Because the only place women and Tw kicked up together

highame · 03/03/2021 15:45

Does anyone else think our public institutions are really, really crap. Why are we paying our taxes to give jobs to such a stack of numpties

TinyTroubleMaker · 03/03/2021 15:45

*locked.. up Hmm

RedDogsBeg · 03/03/2021 15:46

This case is opening up a huge can of worms:

Can't ask if someone has a GRC
Must accept someone has a GRC if they say they do, can't see proof
Lack of data collection which will impact risk assessments
A rapist can apply for and be granted a GRC whilst in prison
Single Sex Exemptions don't apply to prisons
Dangerous TW Prisoners must be allowed to interact with female prisoners
No medical treatment required for a GRC
What are the criteria for living as a woman (did we get an answer to this?)

any more?

Sophoclesthefox · 03/03/2021 15:47

@Signalbox

All those people who say there is absolutely no conflict of rights between transwomen and women could not look at this case and maintain that position could they?
It would require quite a lot of cognitive dissonance, but to be honest, that really isn’t a bar...

I think the favoured tactic is going to be slinging dead cats so people get distracted.

RedDogsBeg · 03/03/2021 15:50

Judge wants to know the reason why defence made the concession that single-sex exceptions apply in prison for the reason that its a service - rather than saying they apply because its a public function. Defence to reply in writing /49

Yes I don't understand what difference this makes.

I don't understand either, and the fact the Defence have to reply in writing is strange, surely they already know what they are basing their argument on?

OvaHere · 03/03/2021 15:51

I think the favoured tactic is going to be slinging dead cats so people get distracted.

You mean like the other thread that's suddenly appeared on FWR this afternoon! Stop paying attention to that, look over this way!