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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

511 replies

aliasundercover · 17/02/2021 11:10

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

OP posts:
WWJackieWeaverD · 17/02/2021 15:56

When speaking to someone I know (and who knows I have had a pregnancy and a baby), I find that:

"Can I be a transwoman?"

works quite well as a jumping off point.

Particularly effective as, at face value, it only requires them to lay down the law as to how a female person may or may not define herself. And somehow no-one ever seems to have any qualms about doing that.

titchy · 17/02/2021 15:59

If my dh identifies as a woman, that would apparently make me a lesbian. Can I then get myself on a diversity shortlist or become an LGBTQ+ rep?

(With Thanks for the trans widows whose situations I have just appropriated.)

PotholeParadies · 17/02/2021 16:06

@MaryBCH 's question

Do you agree that there should be sex-segregated facilities for women in hospitals, schools, refuges and prisons?

334bu · 17/02/2021 16:11

Do you think that males who are just as likely to be sexual predators as any other males should be allowed to share sleeping accommodation with teenage girls, just because they say they are women?

ArabellaScott · 17/02/2021 16:14

I've asked 'do you think women should ever be entitled to single sex spaces'? before.

Said person ended up having to say 'no' as they'd painted themselves into a corner, but u could see the dissonance crumbling even as he did so. He's never brought up the subject of the GRA or gender since, and he used to bang on about it.

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 16:16

Yes of course. The child is male, will look like a boy at that age (girls and boys look the same pre-puberty), has a penis and will a urinal.

Sorry but are you arguing that somebody who everyone assumes is a little girl including potential sexual predators is safe in male spaces?

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?

ListeningQuietly · 17/02/2021 16:18

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?
A 10 year old boy as that is what they are is capable of sexual violence in a way that a biological girl is not.

titchy · 17/02/2021 16:20

Sorry but are you arguing that somebody who everyone assumes is a little girl including potential sexual predators is safe in male spaces?

Now I'm confused. You're talking about a 10 year old yes? Presumably with long hair and a skirt? But with a penis? They'd be as safe as a 10 year old boy with short hair wearing jeans.

Floisme · 17/02/2021 16:21

I like this game.
Just a reminder of how jj views this thread.

wellthatsunusual · 17/02/2021 16:22

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?

Yes. Because a transgirl is a boy and is at a comparable level of risk to a ten year old boy.

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 16:23

@ListeningQuietly

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces? A 10 year old boy as that is what they are is capable of sexual violence in a way that a biological girl is not.
Okay ...

That doesn't really answer my question though.

334bu · 17/02/2021 16:25

Sorry but are you arguing that somebody who everyone assumes is a little girl including potential sexual predators is safe in male spaces?*

So why are women and girls safe in female spaces if males who could also be sexual predators are allowed in?? Not sure about your logic here.

Toseland · 17/02/2021 16:26

Where are all the older trans men?

ArabellaScott · 17/02/2021 16:26

Yeah, but nobody is obliged to answer any questions they don't want to.

So women are free here to ignore people if they wish.

titchy · 17/02/2021 16:27

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?

Children, of whatever sex, are less at risk of women. That doesn't mean that all children over the age of 8 (which seems to be the cut off in most public facilities) should use the female facilities.

The issue also isn't the risk to women of a male child, it's the risk of one child to another, and of biological women as a group from biological men.

titchy · 17/02/2021 16:29

The issue also isn't the risk to women of a male child, it's the risk of one child to another, and of biological women as a group from biological men.

I'll clarify - the issue isn't the risk to women of a male child OF 10. Obviously once they're a couple of years older they do start to become a risk.

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 16:31

@334bu

*Sorry but are you arguing that somebody who everyone assumes is a little girl including potential sexual predators is safe in male spaces?**

So why are women and girls safe in female spaces if males who could also be sexual predators are allowed in?? Not sure about your logic here.

There's clearly a difference in a woman's space in which approximately 0.3% of the people who use it might be trans women/girls and someone who to all appearances is female having to use male spaces where 99.7% of people using it are male identified men. It's completely disingenuos to claim the two scenarios are the same.

Which of the above spaces would you rather use?

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 16:34

@wellthatsunusual

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?

Yes. Because a transgirl is a boy and is at a comparable level of risk to a ten year old boy.

But how would any potential abuser know she was trans? Surely any trans woman or girl of any age who 'passes' would be at equal risk to any other woman using men's spaces. It's possible an abuser might stop halfway through when he realises, it's equally possible he might then beat her up for deceiving him, but neither of these prospects brings much comfort.
334bu · 17/02/2021 16:37

There's clearly a difference in a woman's space in which approximately 0.3% of the people who use it might be trans women/girls and someone who to all appearances is female having to use male spaces where 99.7% of people using it are male identified men. It's completely disingenuos to claim the two scenarios are the same.

If anyone man can identify as a woman just by saying so, how long will it be before all sexual predators use this loophole to allow them to abuse women?

Do you think that males who are just as likely to be sexual predators as any other males should be allowed to share sleeping accommodation with teenage girls, just because they say they are women?

MrsWooster · 17/02/2021 16:39

So if men are so dangerous, JJ, why would they be allowed into female spaces?

TheElementsSong · 17/02/2021 16:44

Can you identify which members of the species Bos taurus you want to extract white liquid from to put in your milk?

Can you identify which members of the species Gallus gallus domesticus you want if you want omelettes?

If we wanted to colonise Mars, can you identify which members of the species Homo sapiens would need to be sent as whole, healthy, intact individuals and which members could be sent as samples of white liquid in little vials?

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 16:44

If anyone man can identify as a woman just by saying so, how long will it be before all sexual predators use this loophole to allow them to abuse women?

Well seen as they aren't doing that it's seems lkely to be a long time. Men already abuse women with near impunity, they don't need to pretend to be women to do it.

334bu · 17/02/2021 16:47

Men already abuse women with near impunity, they don't need to pretend to be women to do it.

Nice one. They'll do it anyway so let's just make it easier for them.

titchy · 17/02/2021 16:48

any trans woman or girl of any age who 'passes' would be at equal risk to any other woman using men's spaces.

In other words TW don't feel safe in male space so it's up to women to make room for them in theirs. No - not my job to help you feel safe. Campaign for your own space.

spoiler alert adult TW do not pass

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