Postnatal ward with male partners

[Badhairtoday]

Hi everyone,
I don’t want to debate whether other women should be allowed partners staying overnight on postnatal wards but this really gave me anxiety in my last birth (I won’t go into details of what happened but was too ‘out of it’ to say anything at the time)

I want to know what my options are this time. I will be speaking to someone from the hospital to discuss but wanted to know if I have any rights at all to challenge this, legally even.
I’m usually high risk so have to give birth on labour ward so inevitably will end up on postnatal ward for a number of days. I know they aren’t going to kick out the men for me but wondering If I have the right to ask to be on a female only bay? Side rooms are only for those with a clinical need.

Another hospital would be ideal but it’s too far away and I don’t see why I need to inconvenience myself because the hospital aren’t taking my feelings into account.

Would be great if someone can help. Have contacted various birth rights type organisations but haven’t had any response.

Thank you

Playing monikers ... auto correct playing on mobiles ....

When my mum was dying we had to endure Eastenders on the ward tv at full volume and the HCAs shouting over it to each other and the other patients. IME nobody has any respect these days. Even in my day we had loud, rude male partners on the post natal ward, but we could get security to escort them out. Why they are allowed to bring mobile phones in I have no idea. Massive safeguarding issue.

Gosh how awful for you both @endofthelinefinally and @Eowynthewarrior
I'm so sorry. Truly terrible.

@endofthelinefinally

When my mum was dying we had to endure Eastenders on the ward tv at full volume and the HCAs shouting over it to each other and the other patients. IME nobody has any respect these days. Even in my day we had loud, rude male partners on the post natal ward, but we could get security to escort them out. Why they are allowed to bring mobile phones in I have no idea. Massive safeguarding issue.

That sounds dreadful! I'm so sorry you and your family had to endure such an intrusion.

The hospitals around my way have individual televisions for the patients that they pay for and can listen to on headphones. Not expensive and very sensible.

I'm also disgusted by this practice OP: as well as the attitudes of women in the aforementioned threads who protest: 'I NEEDED my partner there, so screw the privacy, dignity and personal preferences of other vulnerable patients. Me, me, me'.

My child is 6, was born at 4 pm after a long induced labour ending in EMCS, and after a brief recovery as a family my husband was still booted out at 9 pm when we were transferred onto the post-natal ward. Granted, I'd have liked him with me for a while longer but the important people here are the patients, not their families. And don't even get me started on the presence of [aggressive sales] Bounty Reps in a ward full of vulnerable women who have just endured childbirth.

In any other area of medicine this kind of thing simply wouldn't be tolerated. It boils my blood that whenever anyone's boundaries are ridden roughshod over, it always happens to be women's. And this sort of thing is hardly helped by other women bleating about wanting the presence of their partners. Sorry: the NEED of all women patients for privacy, dignity, comfort and security trumps your WANT to have your partner invade vulnerable women's space every hour of the day and night.

Hell, even I can't stand my husband's snoring and he's the man I love. It wouldn't even have occurred to me to think other women would be delighted to put up with it.

It's called boundaries and basic respect.

I really hope you succeed in getting a female only space. I think you are right that it's unlikely they can guarantee but the more people put forward this view the more they have to listen

It was female only when I had DD and had to stay in for a week as she was IUGR. I would not have coped with lots of men around overnight at all. I have past experiences that make this hard for me. I honestly would be frightened and unable to sleep.

The curtains are no privacy at all. I still recall when the male consultant flung wide the curtains on his ward round with all his entourage in tow whilst I was naked from the waist up attached to a double breast pump. I can still almost feel the searing humiliation. I could also hear everything that was discussed about all the other women. All the intimate detail, safeguarding stuff, health about their babies.

A shared toilet post birth with male partners I would find just really really upsetting. Using the loo post a vaginal birth is no joke and you need time and the certainty of privacy. Even just twice the number of people using it is an issue.

I do feel for you and wanted you to know that plenty of women do support female only space. At the very least we should have a choice. It's terrible that we don't anymore.

Mariel I find the "but my Nigel is lovely and I neeeeeed him there" types infuriating

Yes, your Nigel may well be lovely but he's not my Nigel and I don't want to be worrying about my bleeding exposed nether regions concealed only by a flimsy pair of curtains which don't close properly. And her Nigel over there has two convictions for ABH, a sexual assault case pending and a history of DV. And if they let your Nigel in they have to let hers in too. Then there's the "perfectly okay in a social context" Nigel who isn't violent, just a selfish arse, and wants to take a 20 minute dump in the patients' toilet followed by a long leisurely shower in the patients' shower.

This is why I drove 50 miles in the middle of the night whilst in labour so I could give birth in a hospital where the postnatal unit is only private rooms. It was heaven.

I had my DD 2 years ago and my postnatal ward experience was awful. Six beds in the ward and I was the only one who didn't have their DP staying over (he was at home with our other child). There were snoring partners, some bloke spraying Lynx all over himself and loud arguing during the night. In the morning, the men all went over to the breakfast buffet to gobble up the toast, save for one bloke who was sleeping in his partner's hospital bed while she tended to the baby. I felt incredibly vulnerable having to sleep in a room with only a curtain separating me from these men.

I have a relative who works in maternity who said they have caught couples having sex on the ward too. That has got to have been coerced because who the hell would want sex when their baby is hours old?

I don't blame you in the slightest Angelo . It does confirm what we often say when hearing wealthy and ivory tower women politicians and celebrities talk about how they see no issue with males having an all access pass to all women's single sex areas. Bodily dignity, privacy, being allowed to feel safe, comfortable and not humiliated, is rapidly becoming something wealthy women can afford to have.

And that's wrong.

The choice of space is the only way forward. As I often think with the women desperate to rip their kit off in front of any male who wishes it to validate their choice of identity; your body, do whatever the hell with it you want. But you don't get to hand over the bodies of other women without their consent, or to rip away from them the things you're lucky enough not to have to understand the need for yourself.

I still a decade later find this subject make me anxious. So apologies if I express this badly or seem to be derailing. Just wanted to note that there are valid reasons for wanting to have a partner stay, in some cases at least.

My first long and traumatic labour/birth I believe I might have avoided some of the PTSD and the PND had I been allowed to have my partner stay with me, at least for the first night. Not sure if I'm making sense, as I said, the trauma's never really left me. The memory of that long night alone will never leave me, either.

I can completely understand women wanting single sex wards. I can also completely understand women wanting their partners with them.

Solution isn't to choose a side, imo, but to work out practical ways to accommodate both requests.

@CaraDuneRedux

Mariel I find the "but my Nigel is lovely and I neeeeeed him there" types infuriating

Yes, your Nigel may well be lovely but he's not my Nigel and I don't want to be worrying about my bleeding exposed nether regions concealed only by a flimsy pair of curtains which don't close properly. And her Nigel over there has two convictions for ABH, a sexual assault case pending and a history of DV. And if they let your Nigel in they have to let hers in too. Then there's the "perfectly okay in a social context" Nigel who isn't violent, just a selfish arse, and wants to take a 20 minute dump in the patients' toilet followed by a long leisurely shower in the patients' shower.

Absolutely. They tend to be similar to the “I don’t mind sharing toilets/changing rooms/whatever with males” women. Yes it’s lovely that YOU don’t have a problem sharing with unknown males but many, many women do and you don’t get to give away rights and consent on their behalf.

See my comment above. I really think this is unfair and unkind. It's not from lack of compassion for women who want single sex spaces and

'I neeeeeed him there' was true, at least for me. It'd be nice if we could discuss this without maligning women with different wants/needs. As I said, I completely understand and respect women who want single sex spaces. There's no need to sneer at those who really want a partner there.

If a birth is complicated and results in, for example, a woman being unable to get out of bed to attend to her baby, she does need someone to help her. If everything is straightforward and she can move about fairly easily, a husband is superfluous in the post natal ward - in that scenario she'll be home in no time anyway.

I had my mum stay knowing my DH would be useless, my son was the first baby he ever held in his life! This was a time not to throw him the deep end as it effected me and baby directly so I chose mum to assist. DH was in during the birth and mum took over once I gave birth and moved to the ward. I asked for a private room but it was all booked even though I wanted to pay for it. I had very very heavy bleeding and had to stay for 2 nights due to infection. My observation there was, the couple next to me had a partner that was taking care of the baby letting mum rest, him and my mum bumped in the corridors loads of times as my mum was taking my son for a walk on her chest to burp and wind my son and they would chat. The bloke was up all night in his dressing gown. My other observation is despite clear signs everywhere saying "for patient use only" on the toilets, the toilet door was left half open with a man pissing in it. I had stitches and prone to infection as any other pp patients were. When I used the other toilet I turned around to notice the back of my nightie was covered in blood so I was walking like that and I felt uncomfortable walking through husbands staring. Remember, this is when you are the most vulnerable. Too uncomfortable and in pain to complain but you know it's uncomfortable. The next observation is I was in the middle curtain segregated space with no window. When I open the curtains I am directly surrounded by male visitors. I'm trying to bf DS with mum in the tiny curtain separator and midwife who is also helping me. As you can imagine, they keep the wards warmer for babies and how uncomfortable that could be. I never wished so much in my life that I wish I had a private room. I wanted to pay for it but none available. I know next time I give birth, I will escalate it before.

Like I mentioned before I posted this in the main section and the thread became all about why partners should be there and what I was asking was simply ignored, felt the whole thread was hijacked with only a few voices echoing similar sentiments as mine. When I wasn’t being nice about it they resorted to tone policing me. I have a big problem with that. And here yes people are making fun but I am one of those who was glad to have my partner that final night, but it didn’t need to be HIM, a staff member would have done. So I personally don’t find what is being said an issue. They are talking about how womens’ passion to have their partner there drowns out the voices of women like me, whether on the internet or in real life especially with how everything is going with men being entitled to be in what should be women only spaces. So I figured I needed to post somewhere safer where more women are likely to understand. Ofcourse many women understand why you’d want a partner there or any other person of support or an extra pair of hands cos the nhs is ‘under resourced’. I had an awful first birth where I was bed bound due to spinal, I could’ve done with having anyone there to help lift baby up it didn’t have to be my male partner but eventually the HCA would come and baby would get fed. We managed even though it wasn’t nice.

The question more women should be asking is why the f aren’t the midwives/support staff there doing that, why do we need to call in our partners. If more women actually made a noise about that than simply being grateful they can get their partner to stay then maybe things would be better. Lots of women keep saying oh lack of resources, poor nhs etc yes but the money that is there isn’t going to women’s services and that money needs to be redirected there. Why aren’t other services suffering like this? Until women demand better care to change the system I will try my best to make a noise about women not having a choice to be in a female only space. The number of women on that other thread telling me to accept how things are or private is my only option shocked me.
I worry anyone I speak to at the hospital will think I’m asking for too much but I will ask and see where it gets me. I’m tempted to join the local maternity voices (something I was thinking of doing before I even experienced this) but I feel I will be a minority asking for this and in the process I’ll just get labelled as the ‘religious one who’s scared of men’ and not understand that I’m speaking from a women’s rights perspective. But I think i need to do something.

Thanks for your input.

I’m so sorry you had to experience that endofthelinefinally and Eowynthewarrior, awful.

Rowlands thanks for sharing. I completely relate to this.

@TheLoneRager

Ex midwife here, and I'm so glad I don't work in that branch of the NHS any more. I couldn't deal with this at all. I think it's disgraceful though I know two minutes over on AIBU not to want other women's partners sleeping next to me on the post natal ward will trigger an avalanche of "how selfish you are, I absolutely needed my partner there" type responses. Women get little enough care and rest after giving birth but to have some random man snoring and farting in a chair two feet from your head would be intolerable. I also think there are significant safeguarding issues around this, not to mention issues relating to women in abusive /controlling relationships. Why the hell aren't the men at home making sure the house is clean and fridge well stocked ready for when their partner and child come out of hospital?

I'll answer my own question on this - I well remember one couple, the wife's waters broke in the night and flooded the bed. She came in and had the baby. The manchild moved into the spare bedroom until she came home to find the ruined mattress and bedding left untouched. Offer a man like that the chance to move into the postnatal ward and he has the perfect excuse for being a lazy slob!
Oh, and his mil was outraged and gave him more than a piece of her mind.

I had a home birth, midwife told me that her previous birth the man refused to get out of bed. She wasn't pleased, I think her student was traumatised as apparently he got abusive when midwife insisted.

I suppose the trouble is some women do want men there, the most recent birth I heard about was an ex colleague who was moaning about having to stay with his wife when he wanted to go home to bed. People said he was selfish but then other men told they are selfish for wanting to stay.

Back when I had mine dad's could visit for an hour a day. I loved the support I got on the ward with my first, 2nd and 3rd timers giving us beginners the benefit of their experience but I know lots of women hate big post natal wards. I suppose you can't please everyone.

The problem is that most of the reason people want partners is that maternity care is weird (and understaffed). I've had 2 children and more recently a laparoscopic appendectomy. After the Appendix op the staff were so responsive, helping me to the toilet as I was really dizzy, food coming to my bed etc, pain relief pretty well on demand. Contrast with postnatal where you had to go up to a buffet to get a tray of food, and we're trying to care for another person which you were clueless about how, while feeling dizzy, tired and sore. Pain relief begrudgingly provided. A C-section is a much bigger op than a routine appendectomy...

Having a partner present to help you out of bed (because you can't sit up), hold the baby while you haul yourself upright, keep you awake for a night feed when you're terrified of falling asleep and dropping baby and being made to feel guilty for asking staff for these simple things. Also having someone to watch the baby while you get food, change pads etc.

If staffing (and staff attitudes) meant the post natal experience was like any other post surgical ward I doubt the clamour for partners to be allowed would exist...

Surely the women who absolutely need their partners there should be the ones paying for a private room? I only stayed one night on the postnatal ward and men were not allowed overnight, but it was hard enough having a room packed with loud men during the day when I was trying to breastfeed or trying to rest. Is there any other service when partners are allowed to stay? Why should they use hospital facilities when they have no medical need to be there? We need properly funded postnatal care for all women, including single mothers, mothers with abusive partners. Having partners to "help" is not addressing the issue.

Aaaah this again. I seem to remember you aren't even pregnant so who knows, plus you may not even need to stay overnight. You're getting way ahead of yourself. This thread also isn't helped by your irritable responses at times when anything isn't to your liking. The paying to go private is the perfect example; but if you want things done a specific way then you need to pay for it. The phrase "wet women" is rude and dismissive. Others may think you're "wet" for making these kind of demands.

Another point worth perhaps making OP when you contact your trust: when the 'norm' becomes women having a partner available to help and advocate and get support as needed... women who don't have a supporting person able to be present 24/7 become very much at a disadvantage. It's not a luxury everyone has.

Providing the choice of an area where male partners will be 24 hours a day and an area where they will be present only during set visiting hours, would aid ensuring the safety of those women since nursing staff will know where the women are who don't have support.

It still needs to be faced by the nhs that women here are sharing many experiences of distress because of the presence of partners, and distress that they would have encountered without partners due to lack of sufficient staff, and the increasing murmurs that private provision with privacy from other people's male partners is a luxury women aspire to. Privacy, dignity and feeling safe should not be something only wealthy women can afford to have.

What else might help you with what you would like to consider doing here?

Whatkatydid whaaat? When did I use the term ‘wet women’
I rest my case. I was also being misquoted on that thread too.

If it was or if I'd known that paying for a private room was an option I'd have done so in a heartbeat, fwiw.

And OP, I'm sorry, I know you'd said you were attacked on the other thread, I've no desire to do that and that's why I hadn't mentioned it before, but this thread has ended up upsetting me with so many people deriding any mother who may need/want her partner there.

Agree that in most cases this seems to be an issue to do with inadequate care and understaffing. Anyway, didn't want to derail. I'll bow out now.