Postnatal ward with male partners

[Badhairtoday]

Hi everyone,
I don’t want to debate whether other women should be allowed partners staying overnight on postnatal wards but this really gave me anxiety in my last birth (I won’t go into details of what happened but was too ‘out of it’ to say anything at the time)

I want to know what my options are this time. I will be speaking to someone from the hospital to discuss but wanted to know if I have any rights at all to challenge this, legally even.
I’m usually high risk so have to give birth on labour ward so inevitably will end up on postnatal ward for a number of days. I know they aren’t going to kick out the men for me but wondering If I have the right to ask to be on a female only bay? Side rooms are only for those with a clinical need.

Another hospital would be ideal but it’s too far away and I don’t see why I need to inconvenience myself because the hospital aren’t taking my feelings into account.

Would be great if someone can help. Have contacted various birth rights type organisations but haven’t had any response.

Thank you

OP I understand and completely agree with you. We plan to start ttc soon and I absolutely do not want to be on a post-natal ward with men staying overnight. I know the NHS is completely at breaking point but this feels like the ward of all wards which is most important to be single sex. I just would feel very uncomfortable indeed in such a vulnerable position with completely strange men around (no religious reason and no past trauma, and yet I still absolutely hate the idea of this - and imagine many other women do too) and that's without the added irritation of them snoring and farting etc etc and just generally being irritating. Also get what you mean about being induced on a ward with men present.

It's about women's privacy, dignity and choice. It's important, and it's under threat in so many areas. Good luck OP with the conversations you have on this issue, I hope you get positive outcomes and I know I shall be having the same discussions when my time hopefully comes.

Please put in a complaint. This wokery nonsense won't go away unless women stick up for themselves

But where does this wokery nonsense come from? Isn't this just the extension of fathers being present at births? And who was behind that?

I had my only baby 30 years ago when it was assumed the father would be at the birth whereas 50 years ago the assumption was he wouldn't. I really, really, really didn't want to have my husband there but it was just assumed he would be. It was such a relief that I had an elective caesarean. He was in the theatre but an ecs is so neat and tidy and fuss free.

Lemony that’s exactly how I feel. It seems to be a funding/lack of staff issue where women are concerned. I want to see female partners stay over where men have had surgery on their testicles or something and see how they like women constantly flapping around their curtains etc and using their loos. Still not the same thing in terms of vulnerability so it’s always going to be apples and pears but why not do it on other wards where everyone has the same issue but from my reading on other wards this would be a breach but postnatal wards are exempt because women need help with babies so we should allow all men on wards as a default and women like me will have to get blood out of a stone before I could even have w choice to an alternative it seems. I think after lack of resources this has been done to pander to the dad groups that it has been done for the women’s benefit as surely if it was for women’s benefit they would direct more funding towards it so we could have better than we are getting. But anyway I’m not even here to ask to get them banned but to have my own space with other ladies but seems I’m asking for too much.

Pawivy wow I’m so glad they kept you safe. I do think your issue is different and I would be shocked if they kept you with opponents. So sorry you even had to see them and go through it.

What I mean is yours is more of a ‘real’ vulnerability whereas mine is most likely to be seen as ‘imagined’ or something. I think because I don’t have any evidence to prove anything whereas your threats were more clear cut and with motives ie opponents

this has been done to pander to the dad groups

Has it? Are "dad's groups" even a thing?

Yes have a Google i read one the other night and the person writing the article basically said a woman does have privacy as there are curtains I can’t remember the name of the group but stumbled on it. Similar sounding name to fathers4justice I think it was dadmatters? Can’t remember

I'm sceptical that this has arisen because of pandering to dad's groups. Fathers4Justice are hardly a mainstream group that anyone takes seriously.

my trust have never allowed men to stay over, just 2 hrs visiting slots atm.

Forty odd years ago I would have loved my women’s group to have been able to support me after giving birth. I would guarantee that had they been able to , no woman present in the ward would have objected. However men on the ward would have raised many objections for all the reasons we know about. Thank goodness visiting was restricted in those days. Gives time to get used to the whole thing in a more supportive situation. In those days of course staffing was adequate and the midwives had more time.

It seems to be a funding/lack of staff issue where women are concerned.

Very much so. Which is why really it's at the point of needing separate spaces: women who choose to have males in the room overnight and those who don't/can't. Inclusion is about addition.

I want to see female partners stay over where men have had surgery on their testicles or something and see how they like women constantly flapping around their curtains etc and using their loos.

Yes. Privacy, dignity etc is a thing and male distress about this is usually listened to where females are told to get over it.

I can see socialisation playing a role there though. Less likely to be doing things like eating the patient's food, expecting the patient to do childcare from their bed, getting the patient out of their bed so the female partner can have a nap and other things like that which are downsides for women patients. Less fear on the part of the male patients to sleep in case a female eyes them up around the curtains or sexually assaults them. Sex based differences matter, it's pointless denying it.

The other big downside for male patients in this though is I suspect they'd find the same as women's maternity wards: staffing can be dropped and nurses moved away to other wards while the female partners pick up a lot of the work. Until it reaches the point where male patients are afraid to be alone on the ward, knowing if they get into difficulties without their partner there, they are on their own.

Its not unreasonable to want a single sex bay, toilet and bathroom. In theory we have the right to single sex words (in practice they turn out to mean 'single gender'. There's been a couple of threads about that.)

The rules state you should not normally have to share sleeping accommodation with members of the opposite sex but it seems to apply to patients not visitors.
This is the main page;
improvement.nhs.uk/resources/delivering-same-sex-accommodation/

This is the linked document, look at page 4;

''In March 2012 the NHS Constitution introduced a pledge that if admitted to hospital, patients will not have to share sleeping accommodation with members of the opposite sex, except where appropriate.''

''1.3 What is a mixed-sex accommodation breach?
This description of a mixed-sex accommodation breach refers to all patients in sleeping accommodation who have been admitted to hospital.
• A breach occurs at the point a patient is admitted to mixed-sex
accommodation outside the guidance.
• Patients should not normally have to share sleeping accommodation with members of the opposite sex.''
improvement.nhs.uk/documents/6005/Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

There is also this;
www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/mixed-sex-accommodation/

Thanks for those links. Yes they are in fact single gender and not single sex.
I have read these documents too and it’s pretty much saying that if male and female patients are put on a ward together under any circumstance that is a breach and needs to be reported. But then their exemptions were a few things including visitors and therefore postnatal wards did not breach anything by allowing men to stay. It makes me really angry as where, on other wards will you find a disproportionate number of healthy non patient males sleeping near drugged, tired, bed bound women who are then plonked with babies to deal with and then random men causing them anguish yet postnatal wards have been lumped with the other categories of visitors when no thought has been given to patient dignity and safety even though the whole thing chats about maintaining dignity and safety for patients, just not women on postnatal ward. I really will have my work cut out.

Michelle thanks absolutely no matter how much I try to do the whole ‘shoe on the other foot’ thing it really isn’t the same thing and cannot compare

@Badhairtoday

I think the women complaining in the context of covid are actually talking about having their partner visit as usual, I don’t think they mean staying over night

Some of them definitely are complaining about their partners staying over night, some are complaining about their partners not being able to visit, some prefer it this way. Unfortunately it’s a complex issue with a full spectrum of views, and the one that tends to be supported is the one that puts the least pressure on staff.

Honestly I can’t see that having 24 hour male visitors is helpful to maternity staff. I would imagine that these men are more of a hindrance than a help. Generally staff on hospital wards find it a relief when visiting hours are over.

When I had DD no visitors at all due to Covid: I actually breathed a sigh of relief on finding this out as it meant I wouldn't have to share a ward with other people's partners. My midwife told me that all of them were actually finding it so much easier without any men there as they can concentrate on what they are supposed to be doing (looking after women and babies) rather than wasting their time policing the visiting men.

@Backbee

The reason why, in my opinion, so many hospitals allow men overnight in postnatal wards is because the postnatal care is so appalling. The men are there on many cases to fill that gap in care for women who are often not very mobile due to caesarian or instrumental birth. Better postnatal care would lead to less need for men to be there overnight. I work with postnatal women and the most common complaint is that the postnatal care is awful and even trauma inducing in some cases.

Sadly yes. As DH had flown back from deployment to be here for the birth, he was shattered and right went home overnight to sleep (otherwise he wouldnt have been safe to drive us home). Cue a midwife demanding I phone him as it's not her responsibility to help with baby overnight (I had a catheter and IV lines so couldn't reach over to pick baby up). So he had to come back in at 1am to sit on a chair all night and pass baby over when he was hungry. Fucking ridiculous.

Anyway, the midwife on shift before did say specifically that if I was alone overnight I could have my own bay and they would keep an eye on us. It will vary though I guess, definitely speak to your midwife and find out what you can do. I don't think overnight visitors are allowed at the moment due to covid anyway if you're in the UK?

Please someone tell me this was a rogue midwife?

Surely it is absolutely the job of midwives to ensure babies are carried to their mothers safely for nursing especially during the night.

25 years ago I had c-section. In hospital for 4 days. I had to wait up to an hour for midwife to come when I rang the bell on my first night cos I could not get out of bed. It was partly the trigger for my PND. I thought it was because they had staffing issues (I was told).

God forbid that it has now reached the point where post natal care has been reduced to midwives saying it’s not their job to ensure babies are cared for when mothers are incapacitated

When I was in the labour ward in September my DP was only allowed to visit for 30 minutes a day never mind stay over, even when I was in a private room. There wasn’t enough room in the 4-bedded ward to have a partner stay I wouldn’t think

Partners weren’t allowed to stay overnight when my children were born. But having had all of my children stay in hospital over night at some point the children’s wards have a mixture of male and female parents staying with their children so it is something you could come across in future.

@Angel2702

Partners weren’t allowed to stay overnight when my children were born. But having had all of my children stay in hospital over night at some point the children’s wards have a mixture of male and female parents staying with their children so it is something you could come across in future.

I’ve spent a lot of time in hospital with my daughter and it’s WILDLY different as a parent staying over versus a patient having just given birth.

Sexwithoutgender exactly!

Newmama, I think there were 5 beds on my bay and I’m very sure all the women had a male partners, it sounded that way anyway

@Badhairtoday oh dear that sounds cramped! I could barely walk down the side of my bed without bumping into the woman next to me’s crib with the baby in it

In fairness, I would of loved to have had my DP stay with me, I had a very traumatic labour with blood transfusions needed afterwards & I was so knackered I could barely pick up my baby, especially with all the cannulas I had coming out of my hands & arms but also as a FTM & being so vulnerable I would of hated to have other peoples partners thwre

The whole idea of curtains being private is a joke. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that better privacy screens would be welcome in all wards but Labour and post natal an obvious starting point. One of the biggest stresses I have seen in hospital was other patients visitors. Usually loud gobby insensitive men crass boorish . When my dad was dying and struggling to speak I found his last words drowned out by blokes visiting the guy next door playing monikers yelling . I asked the charge nurse if they could be removed but nothing was done. I can’t imagine that new mums would recover well with men like this nearby