To ask Radical Feminists about their views on BDSM?

[BeeDeeEssEm]

Name changed (though I'm not a troll / intentionally goady! Also ignore my silly username haha!).
This was just something I was mulling over and I thought; "I know, I'll ask Mumsnet."

I know Mumsnet has a large community of feminists (particularly Radical Feminists, apologies in case that term causes offense (?) but I'm not sure how to put it otherwise). I was wondering what the views on consensual BDSM are? A lot of it contains choking / aggression towards women but I was wondering if that is nullified by the consensual or enjoyment aspect.

Full disclosure I'm in my twenties and so things like BDSM are relatively normalised for me, but I know my mum was very anti-BDSM and she spoke about it a lot when I was in my teens (MN would probably like her & her other views I think!)

Sorry if that's a weird thing to ask, just curious for curiosity sake. I haven't formed an opinion of my own about it yet, and I only really hear Liberal Feminist perspectives on BDSM (and other sexual topics). Also sorry if this has already been done to death, I'm not sure!

Just an add on to my last post - some men who like being dominated are necessarily 'nice' to their girlfriends. They can be selfish, passive manchildren who like being sold what to do so, enjoy being babied and are quite happy to leave everything to their partner whether their partner likes that relationship role or not. They can still be selfish, still capable of objectifying women as people who should be serving their sexual needs and fantasies.

Some of them would like humiliation from anyone, but the reason why some of them crave humiliation from women in particular is not just because they're attracted to them, it's because they can think of nothing more humiliating than being dominated by a woman. A person who is less strong than them, who they 'should' be dominant over.......who maybe they otherwise view as a bit inferior to them. It makes the shame more delicious for them.

some men who like being dominated are not* necessarily nice

Just a general musing more than anything, but I wonder if being dominated or 'forced' is a common male fantasy.
The reason I ask is because women have basically been conditioned to fantasize in this way for numerous reasons- guilt about wanting sex, being seen as desirable, conditioned to being attracted to alpha males.

It'd be interesting to know if men in large part without these conditions fantasize in this way or if it's largely a social conditioned thing.

It'd be interesting to know if men in large part without these conditions fantasize in this way or if it's largely a social conditioned thing.

So I can't find much info on "ravishing" fantasies for men (at least with them as the ravishee, which is maybe indicative of something) but upon looking at this website:

www.everydayhealth.com/mens-health-pictures/top-sexual-fantasies-for-men.aspx

"Having His Partner Pursue Him and Take Charge" is the first one mentioned (which maybe interlinks with a desire to be ravished? Clutching at straws!).

Posted too soon! It says:

Whether it's a full-on dominatrix or simply a partner who knows what they want and how to get it, many men find the thrill of a confident and sexual partner to be very appealing, explains Laura Berman, PhD, a sex expert and author of Loving Sex: The Book of Joy and Passion. "It can be tiresome to always feel like the pursuer. Feeling pursued can be a very sexy change, and it can also be a huge ego boost," she says.

It also mentions "Submission: Being Tied Up, Teased, and Spanked".
Many men enjoy sexual fantasies in which the man is more of a passive player. "A lot of men enjoy being submissive," Kerner says. "It runs contrary to the way they experience their lives outside the bedroom. They enjoy being tied up, teased, tantalized, and spanked. It’s about feeling like you surrender control..

and "Domination: Blending Pleasure With Pain"
For some men, the fantasy of domination, or having total power over their partner in a sexual situation, can be quite arousing, Kerner says. These types of fantasies typically include bondage, spanking, dirty talk, receiving oral sex, as well as other forms of expression. Getting a little Fifty Shades action going with your partner can be a lot of fun as long as it’s consensual, but Kerner notes that some fantasies can live happily inside the mind. “Sometimes the charge of a fantasy is sharing it and talking, while some fantasies want to find some form of expression in the world.

"Having His Partner Pursue Him and Take Charge" is the first one mentioned (which maybe interlinks with a desire to be ravished? Clutching at straws!).

Which is interesting as in my experience most men are turned off by assertiveness. I have a lifetime of having to pretend to be coy to back it up!

I find the AH news absolutely chilling and was surprised to discover I followed him on Twitter for some reason. Makes me wonder how fast things works have gone if the media spotlight hadn't been cast on his behaviour.

It's so sick that young women with trauma from abuse are being told by the kink community that having a man "pretend rape" them, allow them to do it while the man gets off on it will somehow be theurapetic for them. It's so sick that they're told that making their own trauma into something sexy is somehow good, and that passively experiencing it all over instead of succesfully fighting back will somehow be helpful.
It's clear why this lie is being promoted and to whom it's helpful: It gives abusive men a buffet of young vulnerable women to prey on.
Young women aren't told that it would be good for them to strangle and whip men as some sort of revenge therapy, no, they have to be victimised all over again.
(I would say learning self-defence and getting actual therapy would be a better solution than hitting men who get off on it)

As a parent of teenage girls the idea that choking and other "porn-style" sex practices are considered normal by 20 year olds is terrifying.

When I was an older teen magazines like "More" were all about techniques to teach men how to please women and bring them to orgasm, and yeah women how to please men "tips for the perfect blowjob" etc. This seems much healthier than the current trends which seem to largely ignore women's pleasure.

I hate the thought that a whole generation of women are growing up with men who don't know or care how to make them come, and women just think that's normal. Maybe this is one of the reasons so many teenage girls want to become men, because sex doesn't seem like pleasure for girls. Sad times.

If you're a 20 something woman, please try to teach your partners that female pleasure is important rather than just putting up with male-centered sex.

I hate the thought that a whole generation of women are growing up with men who don't know or care how to make them come, and women just think that's normal.

This is an anonymous forum, so I'll be honest. I've had (tops) three orgasms in my life with other people. If you compare that to the ratio of people and times I've actually had sex, it's not great.

Some of that will be my fault, but I do think there's a bit of a thing of "making female satisfaction not a high up priority for men, and making women feel awkward for asking".

Potentially plays into the logic mentioned earlier of "being a whore" if you enjoy sex, a la the ravishing fantasy, and a lot of the time it's just easier to not ask for what you want. But I have dated a lot of bastards, so I wouldn't be surprised if my experience is skewed!

So that's the new taboo, isn't it. Men aren't allowed to care if their partners are enjoying sex, and women aren't allowed to say that kind of sex isn't pleasurable.

What is the point of sex for women then? If we aren't supposed to enjoy it.

It's a tool for self validation and getting men to like us.

Or so we think.

Maybe BDSM turns out to be a tool used by abusive men who get off on their partner not enjoying it.

It's a tool for self validation and getting men to like us.

Yep. And it works. Especially in already vulnerable women.

Very very sad. And a complete change from how I perceived sex as a teen/20s. Then I saw it that men were all gagging for sex and thought themselves bloody lucky if they got some. Young women were all having Anne Summers parties and learning about their own pleasure. Men who didn't give pleasure ran the risk of having the mickey taken out of them by women to their girlfriends.

Great post @EarthSight, and very eloquently put.

I am still not ok with women being into BDSM, I see far too many who have done it because they think they should be into it, because "all their friends do it and they didn`t want to look like a prude", because they get coerced into it, because they have existing issues and are manipulated into it and so on.

Not just that but for all the other reasons others have mentioned about BDSM being detrimental to women as an already oppressed class.

It's a tool for self validation and getting men to like us.

Yes quite, but acquiescence will never create equality, no matter what the patriarchy claims.