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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Baroness takes on La Leche League

167 replies

CaveMum · 02/12/2020 19:54

Yet another fantastic letter from Baroness Nicholson to La Leche League re their stance on “chest feeding”.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1334210792468717573?s=21

OP posts:
HecatesCats · 02/12/2020 20:53

@PinkyU

The protocol used to induce lactation is the same that’s used for adoptive parents, same sex couples, parents seeking to relactate, those who have IGT or have undergone mastectomy’s.

Whilst not ideal (as in anything that requires outside influence in a natural event), it’s not unsafe provided any medications are monitored.

Do you have an issue with all of the above also?

Here we go again. Why would a transwoman want to breastfeed a baby?
Redshoeblueshoe · 02/12/2020 20:53

Excellent letter.

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/12/2020 20:54

*not males taking, liquid being made for males.

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/12/2020 20:54

@PinkyU

There are a number of cultures which have historically (some which still do) normalised Male lactation. It’s not a new concept.
And?
PinkyU · 02/12/2020 21:00

Why does anyone want to breastfeed their child?

PinkyU · 02/12/2020 21:01

yourhair And just because an act is not prevalent in your circle or society it’s doesn’t make it repugnant.

Pahrump · 02/12/2020 21:02

@PinkyU

I’ve seen this reference before and looked into it as I’d no idea that LLLGB had stopped using “breastfeeding” and started using “chestfeeding”, but that’s not actually what’s happened.

In all, bar none, of their literature they use “breastfeeding”, they have included (not substituted for) “chestfeeding” in their transgender and non binary information. For those who appreciate the inclusion of an alternative name.

I could see the issue if LLLGB had completely annihilated the term breastfeeding but they’ve not, they don’t even include “chestfeeding” in the vast, vast majority of their text, it’s only there if you’ve specifically sought that advice, information or support.

How does this negatively impact you?

Umm... did you completely miss the part about males wanting to breastfeed babies?
HecatesCats · 02/12/2020 21:02

Because they're predominantly women who have given birth to their child and they are lactating as a result of that process. Why would a transwoman want to breastfeed a baby a woman has given birth to?

Pahrump · 02/12/2020 21:06

A friendly reminder that some people like to cause consternation and goad posters into a deletion or ban 🙂

LaValliere · 02/12/2020 21:06

Hum ho, I don’t actually like her letter. it uses some emotive terms and that will make it easier to dismiss. I also don’t think that the recent case on the meaning of ‘mother’ is a substantive or useful point.

If I were her I would have focused solely on the medical aspect - I would have asked what research LL had done on the drugs involved, & on their potential consequences for the baby; whether LL is confident the drugs concerned will have no adverse consequences for the baby; if so what medical & pharmacological research grounds this confidence; if not, what the ethical implications of this are; what the likely concentration of the drugs in the milk is; whether LL have taken legal advice about their potential liability for damages if they encourage this & a baby is damaged, etc.

But then she bothered to write & I didn’t - so good for her.

I suspect LL has not looked into these issues at all & is just spouting woke gibberish - they need to be reminded of the important person here who is the baby. Not an adult male. The baby, who is definitely not Gillick competent & cannot consent to ingesting drugs that are of no medical benefit to it whatsoever.

LouHotel · 02/12/2020 21:07

Yes yes yes yes.

I'm posting it I to my local breastfeeding support Facebook group.

AnotherEmma · 02/12/2020 21:07

This "infographic" did the rounds in August (breastfeeding awareness month), lunacy.
It's a huge issue and it's not just La Leche League who have bought into this hook, line and sinker.

The Baroness takes on La Leche League
Quillink · 02/12/2020 21:08

Male chest liquids. Queasily spot on.

CaveMum · 02/12/2020 21:08

The key difference between restarting lactation or stimulating it in an adoptive mother or same sex partner is that the drugs are taken for a short time to get the milk supply established. Once established the woman’s body secretes the natural hormones to maintain supply. A man cannot naturally lactate in sufficient quantities to nourish an infant and therefore they must continue to take the drugs throughout the process, thus exposing the child to far higher quantities of the drugs than they were originally intended for. If you can’t see a problem with that then I wash my hands.

OP posts:
FlibbertyGiblets · 02/12/2020 21:11

Brava, Baroness.

HecatesCats · 02/12/2020 21:11

I personally think safeguarding is just as important, if not more. Who benefits from LLL allowing transwomen who want to breastfeed to attend breastfeeding groups, as per their policy? Who benefits from transwomen receiving support to attempt this from an organisation set up to support mothers, as per their mission statement. The Baroness is quite right to draw attention to the charity's mission statement and its meaning.

happydappy2 · 02/12/2020 21:18

Does male chest liquid have any nutritional benefits for a baby? I doubt it, surely formula is more nutritious.

CandyLeBonBon · 02/12/2020 21:26

Hadn't male chest feeding and lactation using these drugs only been studied once?

How is that even remotely acceptable as a choice involving infants who cannot consent to being experimented on all for the sake of validation?

espressoontap · 02/12/2020 21:35

Bloody brilliant. I hate the term 'chest feeding'. The world has gone bloody mad.

Coyoacan · 02/12/2020 21:40

PinkyU. What cultures have lactating men?

BaseDrops · 02/12/2020 21:46

That’s a fierce letter.

Regardless of the medical/drug issues and personal reasons for a male wanting to have a baby suckle...La Leche have to work within their charitable status. Which is about supporting mothers.

No male, whether they have transitioned to female or not is legally a mother. It’s not possible in the same way as a transman who gives birth can’t refuse to be the baby’s legal mother.

La Leche absolutely can and should support transmen who have given birth to breastfeed.

StillWeRise · 02/12/2020 21:56

@PinkyU

There are a number of cultures which have historically (some which still do) normalised Male lactation. It’s not a new concept.
I'd like some refs for this
Winesalot · 02/12/2020 22:00

And what about the effect of male levels of testosterone on an infant. In the one study that was done (the focus was on whether it was successfully achieved not on any aspect on the child’s needs) the Dr noted the male had male levels of testosterone despite being a transwoman as well as the other drugs taken. Including hormone suppressants that clearly were not working but still in the system.

pinkyu please tell us exactly what drugs are usually taken by transwomen, in addition to the drugs taken to induce lactation (as others have pointed out these start months before and continue throughout).

The note by the way of the dr conducting the trial was a transwoman dr who said they themselves decided not to do this experiment themselves when they had the opportunity. They noted the risk of the combination of drugs was unknown in short and long term.

There is plenty of links on the other recent threads about LLL maybe have a look since you are interested. And see some expert point of views.

There is a debunked study stating males would breastfeed in other cultures but other experts reviewing the study pointed out they were soothing their babies not feeding and the researcher misinterpreted the action.

Or do you have some research that states otherwise? Or are a researcher yourself?

Winesalot · 02/12/2020 22:01

They noted the risk of the combination of drugs was unknown in short and long term. on the infant.

borntobequiet · 02/12/2020 22:03

@PinkyU

Why does anyone want to breastfeed their child?
To provide it with the most nutritious, accessible and inexpensive nutrition available? What an odd question. Also, there are a number of cultures that have normalised slavery, human sacrifice, paedophilia and weird hairstyles. That doesn’t mean they’re good things or that we should copy them.
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