Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Baroness takes on La Leche League

167 replies

CaveMum · 02/12/2020 19:54

Yet another fantastic letter from Baroness Nicholson to La Leche League re their stance on “chest feeding”.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1334210792468717573?s=21

OP posts:
JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 12:59

@PinkyU mothers breast feed because it gives their baby the best start in life. It is often very difficult and painful and tiring. Still that is the reason they do it. No mother that I have met has started breast feeding for her own benefit. It is not supported well in our society. The job of La Leche is to offer that support. To women who are struggling to do it for their baby because it is difficult for some many reasons that only new mothers will really get.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 03/12/2020 13:05

Joody, I have to confess, I BF for my own benefit. It was easier than to sterilise bottles (which I did occasionally as well as I expressed and my husband did a night feed), food was always available and it helped me to be completely flexible when out and about.

However, I had excellent help the first few days and I had the second highest milk supply the nurse had seen in her career. I was very aware of how lucky I was compared to some.

In addition, it was all about being a food machine, the cuddles and hugs was there all the time anyway.

niceberg · 03/12/2020 13:06

gardenbird98 agreed, the effect on men themselves is a concern. My point was really that the argument about the drug getting through to babies is not a strong argument as that happens when women are prescribed it. I think it undermines the thrust if weak arguments are included in an approach like this.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 03/12/2020 13:08

This thing called "kink shaming"..

You're not supposed to do it, I imagine.

But why? It's fucking horrible what these men get up to, non?

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 03/12/2020 13:09

Wanking in the toilets at work? In a rubber suit? At the NSPCC?

Pretty fucking shameful if you ask me.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/12/2020 13:11

Awesome awesome letter. Baroness, you bloody rock.

Anyone who thinks it's ok for a newborn to be used as a prop to validate a mans feelings has a serious problem. Really, if you're ok with this concept you need to go away and learn about safeguarding.

misses LangCleg

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 13:32

@CoffeeTeaChocolate I think that sounds brilliant and I am really glad that it is working well. When the partnership between mother and child works like that it wonderful. I did get to that stage with mine eventually but it took quite a lot of struggle initially. Baby and mum work together in that feeding relationship I think. But it is baby led isn't it? You cannot make a child feed really. The favourite side thing caused an issue for me :)

HecatesCats · 03/12/2020 13:34

An organisation set up by women to support babies and women to successfully breastfeed, for the healthy development of the child, actually has a policy of allowing transwomen who want to breastfeed (why?) to join meetings and to receive support if they need it. Let that sink in. In these instances they would presumably have to facilitate male born people who can't actually properly breastfeed to disrupt the bonding process, and the ability of the mother to successfully establish breastfeeding, so that they could try to feed babies, the most vulnerable of all human beings. Thank god for women like the Baroness, honestly.

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 13:41

I really don't understand the push to bring kink into the mainstream. Surely the whole point is that it is not generally acceptable and that this is where the eroticism lies. As a culture we are seeing porn get nastier and nastier because it has become more accessible and the buzz for people isn't there. We need to put the brakes on for the sake of all of us. I do not think that is a prudish point of view. We are creeping from the thin to the fat edge of the wedge and that is a terrifying prospect.

Winesalot · 03/12/2020 13:43

I must admit that in my extreme sleep deprivation, I would have also been concerned at misgendering in group situation.

Thank god i had access to a nhs run bf’ing clinic when I needed it. They were a godsend.

MichelleofzeResistance · 03/12/2020 13:43

Bravo Baroness. Again.

Breast feeding is something done by the mother for the baby. Often at the actual cost of blood, sweat, no sleep (for years sometimes), limited freedom and many tears, solely for the benefit of the baby. Mothers who can't successfully sustain breast feeding don't go on putting the baby on the breast for their own fun, and female relatives don't stuff the baby on to their breast for their pleasure and enjoyment because its about the child and feeding the child . And to most mothers, there's limited fun stuff about it at all, it's bloody hard work. Why do women say 'well done' with genuine admiration to women still managing to breastfeed after a few months? Because it is bloody hard work.

The baby is not to provide adults in its vicinity with lovely validating or sexual breast suckling experiences, regardless of how those adults feel about it.

The fact (yet again) that we have many birth mothers struggling to feed their babies (who actually need to be fed, and to gain weight and stuff like that) and manage the real aspects of being a birth mother breast feeding who are now trying to access help over a crowd of non birth mothers, many of whom appear to be male, who would like their equality shot at getting their desired experiences and see the baby as an extension of their experience, and are being pandered to by a mission creeped wholly overshot and politically captured bunch of services...…… says a whole lot about how society now views females. And children.

And that again, we have the harsh reality and the real people with the real experiences and needs being stuffed out of the way under the carpet by those with louder, more powerful voices who want to borrow the identity and the nice bits of the experience for their personal needs.

TheLadyOfShallnott · 03/12/2020 13:45

I think it is far more than a kink when men use babies to achieve any sort of gratification.

Kink shaming makes it sound fluffy and harmless.

I think someone involving a baby to get jollies is far from harmless.

CoronaCustard · 03/12/2020 13:51

Can we just be careful of our tone.

I generally am on the side of ‘lets not blindly allow trans rights to infringe women’s rights’ - but as a natal woman who took fuck loads of drugs to be able to feed my babies - the fetishisation of perfect, natural motherhood bothers me.

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 13:51

@HecatesCats yes exactly. Poor poor baby, how would anyone think that was ok? It really is a distortion of the natural bond between mother and child. There is no justification. None. It is abusive to the child and to the mother. There are some things that should not be for sale or purchase or accessible as an entitlement. The mother/child bond is sacred.

HecatesCats · 03/12/2020 13:56

Corona I've said on this thread and the previous thread on this subject that I don't think this is a debate about the rights and wrongs of breastfeeding and the pressure placed on women to do it and get it right (I had a nightmare myself, forced to take antibiotics for mastitis etc). It is about the perversity of an organisation which does buy into 'breast is best' behaving in this way. I do think the focus is best placed on their hypocrisy.

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 13:56

@CoronaCustard apologies if any of this was triggering. I didn't intend anything that way for sure. But much of motherhood is "natural" isn't it?

HecatesCats · 03/12/2020 13:57

And in safeguarding of course. I find this capitulation extremely worrying

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 13:57

@HecatesCats said it better than me

CoronaCustard · 03/12/2020 14:06

I guess I also have a lot of loyalty to LLL because they were the ones who dug me out of a deep hole. They had an amazing non-judgemental attitude.

Welcomed me (and pulled out the thick books to research) - when other breastfeeding counsellors came across as slightly peeved that their standard advice wasn’t helping me.

FTEngineerM · 03/12/2020 14:08

@PinkyU

Why does anyone want to breastfeed their child?
I don’t want to.. I am a mammal and I have reproduced.

My female body produced milk itself when my young instinctively started to suckle.. with no outside input what so ever.. To feed my mammal young..

I’ve been following this debacle story since I saw the other thread where the lady was essentially thrown out of the Facebook group for not agreeing. The more I read comments like this the more frustrated I’m becoming.

FTEngineerM · 03/12/2020 14:12

@MichelleofzeResistance you have put that more eloquently than I ever could GrinWine

CoronaCustard · 03/12/2020 14:15

I am well past the breastfeeding years now – so I am not on top of the latest trends – but in my time the one story I came across of a man breastfeeding was to do with an adopted baby withdrawing from drug dependency iirc. It was done with a supplemental feeding tube taped to the nipple - and it was seen as a way to soothe a traumatised baby and to help it attach to its new caregivers.

Remembering the formidable, intelligent women who run the groups – my instinct on this is to trust the LLL to be able to work with the scientific and medical knowledge - with compassion to the circumstances of the individual - and of course safeguarding of the child. If I hear otherwise from inside the organisation - I may change my view - but they have my trust on these matters above external voices nit picking at wording in pamphlets.

HecatesCats · 03/12/2020 14:19

Corona they're not saying they'll support transwomen breastfeeding for the benefit of babies (why do transwomen want to breastfeed?), they're saying they'll support this because:

'the world is moving on' and it is extending help to be as 'inclusive' as possible

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8997405/Breastfeeding-charity-sparks-outrage-allowing-men-identify-female-attend-meetings.html

This is in opposition to the charity's mission which is:

“Our Mission is to help mothers worldwide to breastfeed through mother-to-mother support, encouragement, information, and education, and to promote a better understanding of breastfeeding as an important element in the healthy development of the baby and mother.”

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/12/2020 14:27

Yes! If they want to support transwomen then they MUST re-write their mission statement.

Otherwise they are misleading everyone who accesses their help!

That takes away everyone's abilty to give informed consent, to attend any meetings that will be mixed sex knowing they will/may be doing so!

If/when they do that then there will be an immedate need for women to start another similar group that supports women, only women, real women. With a mission statement identical to the LLLs current one!

Canwecancel2020 · 03/12/2020 14:31

Corona, it sounds like you’ve had the experience of LLL consultants on the ground, doing amazing work with mothers... it seems that a lot of former LLL consultants have spoken out against this new policy. I suspect it’s head office and social media managers tying themselves up in woke knots, in the same way other organisations dealing in women’s health no longer dare say “woman” on their website.

Swipe left for the next trending thread