The Baroness takes on La Leche League

[CaveMum]

Yet another fantastic letter from Baroness Nicholson to La Leche League re their stance on “chest feeding”.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1334210792468717573?s=21

Regarding the medication referred to in the Baroness’ letter (the anti-emetic) the drug she is talking about is Domperidone. It used to be available to buy over the counter and was a very useful anti-sickness drug. There is also some evidence it may help increase milk supply and so was prescribed off label to some women, especially mums of premature babies to help their milk come in ahead of when it would have done normally. However, the MHRA reviewed concerns about Domperidone a few years ago and because of a link with heart problems it was removed from being able to be bought and its use is much more restricted. If I prescribe it now I get a big warning pop up to say about the risks and that it should only be used for max 3-4 days.
There isn’t concern about the drug being excreted in breast milk. The BNF (UK drugs manual) reports that “amounts too small to be significant.”
However, given the change in prescribing guidance and the lack of robust evidence for efficacy many GPs, myself included, no longer prescribe Domperidone to help Mums lactate. The evidence (as LLL will know) is that there are a number of much better, non pharmacological ways to increase milk supply and this is what I discuss with my patients. This is what LLL should be doing too, focussing on ways to support women through difficult breastfeeding issues.
DOI: Mum to ex-premature baby who took Domperidone to increase milk supply before guidance changed. I actually don’t think it was very helpful and the support I had from NICU nurses was much more important.

@Corona that sounds like LLL fulfilling their brief and I completely understand the gratitude and loyalty. I feel similar to people and organisations that have pulled me out of holes. Just to say though, that organisations are only as good as their people. I have also worked for amazing organisations that went bad due to change in senior management, modernising, change for change sake etc. Every organisation needs scrutiny. Amnesty International recently being another case in point.

Corona they are not talking about a man using a feeding tube taped to his chest, they are talking about supporting a transwoman taking a cocktail of drugs to induce a synthetic "milk" supply to "feed" a baby, coupled with the other hormones that the transwoman may also be taking.

The main concerns are that a) there are no studies on the effects of long term and large dose exposure to these drugs for infants; b) a male body is unable to produce this "milk" in sufficient quantities to actually nourish and support the child's growth; c) the disruption to the actual mother/baby breastfeeding bond.

I totally sympathise with your personal journey, I struggled massively with breastfeeding both my children: my first child I lasted 8 weeks, through multiple bouts of mastitis and a breast abscess that ruptured spectacularly in the shower one morning requiring multiple hospital trips to have the abscess drained and now, over 6 years later, my breast is still noticeably (to me) misshapen where the abscess had formed. My second child I lasted 5 weeks when the mastitis started again and I decided to stop through fear of the same thing happening again and putting myself through further pain, both mental and physical. I still feel guilty about it to this day and if you try to talk to me about it I will inevitably break down in tears - I'm tearing up thinking about it all as I type this now.

I believe I had undiagnosed PND as a result of all of this, something that still causes me issues to this day. In fact I have only just this week had an assessment with a therapist who has diagnosed me with "high levels" of anxiety and referred me for CBT as he says my symptoms are indicative of my brain struggling to process something, and I truly think my breastfeeding issues are a part of this anxiety.

Sorry, that was a real brain dump

@CaveMum sending support. You have done a fantastic job. There is no need to feel guilty. But I think many find CBT is helpful. I hope you find some closure with this regardless. You sound like a brilliant mum to me.

Flowers for you CaveMum

Thanks both, sorry for the thread derail - though it is my thread anyway

This is a splendid letter.

I'm not hard core LLL (hard to reconcile being a full time working mother with their principles) but this stance is the nail in the coffin for me and I will stop my membership.

While others have also clarified that we are not discussing feeding via tube strapped to a nipple but drug induced feeding (with an combination of drugs that a transwoman is already taking, who knows which of those drugs become available in the fluid they are producing PLUS what effect the combination of these drugs will have on the infant.)

I might also point out that would a male feeding by tube (and again, if there is no medical reason for this being better for the infant, why do it?) not require some specialist assistance? Would their needs match with other bfing mother's needs enough not to derail any sessions?

I think pointing out to charities that they are straying from their remit, as outlined in their charitable purposes, is something we should be doing more often.

Well done Emma!

Cavemum

It is painful and often bloody hard work, as anyone reading on MN on the subject for ten minutes would very quickly surmise. It's emotionally devastating to women who struggle or have to give up and experience circumstances beyond their control. It's part of what makes this nonsense from LLL so ruddy offensive and insensitive.

more flowers for you Cave so glad you have found a therapist to help you process this.

Cave

I can't read the letter either here or on Twitter. If I enlarge the page it becomes too blurred, but otherwise the print's too small for my rapidly aging eyes. I'm sure it's great, her letters usually are.

@niceberg

gardenbird98 agreed, the effect on men themselves is a concern. My point was really that the argument about the drug getting through to babies is not a strong argument as that happens when women are prescribed it. I think it undermines the thrust if weak arguments are included in an approach like this.

yes that's a good point to make - it is always helpful to keep testing and checking and I get your point re. mums having it. I wonder if males would need much higher quantities which could be a problem for the baby.

@gardenbird48 another poster up thread stated the amounts of drugs involved with a man needing to make significantly more of the drug than a woman and for a much longer period - once lactation is established in a women it will naturally continue for as long as the baby continues to feed, enabling her to discontinue the drugs, but a man will not produce the same naturally occurring hormones to maintain the supply.

thanks Cavemum I posted without realising I had not reached the end of the thread. That makes sense.

Bravo the Baroness - as always.

This is a excellent example of the need to keep language clear and to its universally understood correct meaning - and why the use of euphemisms and obfuscation is vital for the TRAs

Compare LLL's interpretation I write with reference to your British Branch policy of encouraging TW to chest feed

with the Baroness's I write with reference to your British Branch policy of encouraging natal males to mimic breast feeding using untried, drug simulated male chest liquids squirted directly into apparently living babies mouths

LLL's version - most wouldn't think much about it. Perhaps a passing query about the use of the word chest

Baroness's version - every right thinking person will be utterly repulsed and sickened.

Words matter. The Baroness has done a blinder.

The world is moving on' and it is extending help to be as 'inclusive' as possible

LLL - some aspects of the world have moved on. The need for babies to have safe nutrition (two ways this is possible - from the bottle or from the breast of mothers) has not.

Good points Uppity

LLL - some aspects of the world have moved on. The need for babies to have safe nutrition (two ways this is possible - from the bottle or from the breast of mothers) has not.

Babies are not props. They cannot speak for themselves. It's a really troubling state of affairs if an organisation like LLL is not prepared to fully protect them in the name of 'inclusivity'.

I heard on BBC News yesterday that the new Covid vaccines have not been tested on pregnant women or breastfeeding mothers, so it will not be recommended that these women have the vaccine.
So many women will soon have to choose between carrying on breastfeeding, putting themselves at extra risk of a life threatening virus, or to stop feeding their babies and go and protect themselves against COVID. I wonder if any men will be put in that position???

Apologies, my last post has nothing to do with the brilliant letter from the Baroness, but why the fuck aren't those who are meant to support breastfeeding women, focussing on the very real issues these women are facing today!

In fact, I don't think I have come across any males breastfeeding that haven't mentioned the erotic effect and a few question why women have kept it secret.hmm

I'll tell you what I'd entirely forgotten about until it happened, and that's that for the first week or so, whenever I fed my new born, I had cripplingly painful uterine cramps - afterpains. I tell you, there were plenty of times I was dreading feeding even the second who was easy, the last thing it was was in any way erotic.

In fact, like many women, touching my breasts was a total turn off for years after having the kids.

In fact, like many women, touching my breasts was a total turn off for years after having the kids.

Same Treestumps. I have not recovered 15 years on. It was only last year after reading MN that I realised it was not rare. Touched out I think?

Touched out yes in general, but also just almost an off-switch, anti-erotic. DP learned to not go anywhere near them if he wanted any!

but also just almost an off-switch, anti-erotic.

Yes. Same here.