Kier shows his colours

[averylongtimeago]

From Facebook, I guess he has picked a side.
51% of the population just don't count.

Women and transwomen.

Mainly because referring to any specific transwomen as a bloke gets you deleted.

It took the results of a court case for us to be able to refer to JY as he without being deleted... yet still most posters don't, just in case

So don't pretend we are not being monitored and restricted when we discuss this topic!

What's difficult about women and transwomen Quaggers? No other word is needed or necessary. Why is using the term transwomen to talk about transwomen dismissing everyone else as blokes? Odd.

I was misgendered in a cafe earlier.

I now realise how wrong I was just to politely ignore having been “sirred”, as the woman behind the counter frantically corrected herself and turned the colour of tomato soup as soon as I spoke.

I now realise that the correct course of action should have been to get on Twitter and call down the hordes to get that bigotty bigot and her cafe of bigotry shut the fuck down immediately!! How dare she?!

(I know that’s off topic, but Christ alive, who can remember now what this thread was actually about?)

Even the police and the CJS think im a bloke not sure how id go about suing..😬

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans' but I am forbidden from using it on these boards which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

Funny, I have a perfectly good word to describe 'XY chromosomes and a dick' but using that word to describe certain people is apparently literal violence and a hate crime.

I think it's about whether or not Keir starmer is aware of the fact that some people mean trans rights are women's rights when they say trans rights are human rights

I believe the jury is still out on that one but it's easy to have missed evidence
In case anyone is interested, I don't consider a random like on twitter as much in the way of evidence
Unless his liking history has been shown to be well considered and rare

I think he probably knows. I mean how can you not know. He certainly knew enough to know when to keep quiet with regards to being elected . ..

I mean there's no way he missed the whole swinson nandy and butler thing..

@MichelleofzeResistance

"when you're talking about someone like me and that word is woman" - how do you talk about trans women then?

I think you just demonstrated it very successfully? Women and Transwomen is quite clear to understand in that sentence.

I have not challenged or complained about anyones terminology on here. I personally do not like the term transwomen. We don't describe any other type of human like that. But I have not objected to its use on here. What I do object to is an attempt to force me to use it.

(I know that’s off topic, but Christ alive, who can remember now what this thread was actually about?)

It's certainly wandered far and wide!

@Whatwouldscullydo

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-prisoner-branded-one-scotlands-11837767.amp

Is this person more or less vulnerable in the mens than the abused women in the womens estate ?

Is that person being held in the female estate?

No but you said that they were vulnerable in the mens...do you think this person is vulnerable?

What term do you like then jj?

@Whatwouldscullydo

I think he probably knows. I mean how can you not know. He certainly knew enough to know when to keep quiet with regards to being elected . ..

I mean there's no way he missed the whole swinson nandy and butler thing..

So then i would wonder is he planning to say of course trans rights are human rights, anyone should be allowed to be whatever gender they want ...but we must also protect women's rights or is he planning to say ..and sex is gender.

Yes jj what term do you use?

Ajd how do you feel about the demands that female officers search them?

Do you think its ok to make female officers touch male bodies? Who's rights win?

No be more ambiguous crap about light akd heat while completely avoiding questions

I personally do not like the term transwomen. We don't describe any other type of human like that

Transwoman is a much more dignified term than the ones women get forced on them, wouldn't you say? Like vagina owner, bleeder, ovary-havers, gestational carriers, 'fish'.

Well I am happy to call them whatever they want provided it isn't a word that already has a clear meaning.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Ajd how do you feel about the demands that female officers search them?

Do you think its ok to make female officers touch male bodies? Who's rights win?

Do you think its okay to make female doctors or nurses or care workers touch male bodies? I don't know about Ireland but only intimate searches in the UK require someone of the same sex, the vast majority of searches can be carried out by anyone although they should aim to facilitate a request to be searched by someone of the same sex if possible.

Right so you think that males should search other males regardless of how they present.

Looks like we finally agree on something.

No women should he forced to search biological.males.

Judging by the fact jj wants women to accept the cis prefix as a distinction I'm surmising that jj won't tell us what term jj likes.

I personally do not like the term transwomen. We don't describe any other type of human like that

I don't like the transwomen either as it implies such people are a 'type' of woman. But I've already been deleted for the use of other more correct terms so that'll have to do.

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans' but I am forbidden from using it on these boards which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

If you mean "cis" that is still in the world of gender identity though so it does not meet the need. Sure if you believe in gender identity then you can identify as either trans or cis. If you don't believe in gender identity you identify as neither.

It's like saying if you are not a monotheist then you are a polytheist because that's the opposite within theism. Yet loads of people are atheist and would object to being told they must be labelled as polytheists because they don't follow the Judeo Christian god.

I identify as neither cis nor trans because I do not identify with a gender any more than I identify with a religion.

You can use woman to describe women then use the special gender words if you need to talk about gender identity for some reason.

So in some circumstances you will address women and transmen (where female biology is the topic, e.g. menstruation, contraception) or women and transwomen (where feminity is the topic, e.g. flowery skirt selling or makeup tips) though tbh I find it that sexist but apparently advertising marketing executives seem to like splitting the world into pink and blue.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes jj what term do you use?

I use trans woman obviously as I have throughout this thread. Whether trans women are women is clearly heavily contested ground in this debate. If you expect me to concede that in every single mention of trans women then you are not debating in good faith in my opinion. I would hope we can accept we have differences in the words we choose to use but with some limitations we should be able to debate without forcing one side to compromise their position by using terms they don't want to use. For example I'd much rather people use they as a pronoun for me but I haven't bothered to force the issue because I realise it would be pointless on here and it would be met with howls of outrage and disingenuous interrogation.

No women should he forced to search biological.males.

And no woman should be forced to be searched by a biological male.