Kier shows his colours

[averylongtimeago]

From Facebook, I guess he has picked a side.
51% of the population just don't count.

No they aren't but they are considered some of the most vulnerable for obvious reasons, and as a group, they are more vulnerable than men

I'm going to take a wild stab here, and say that the sex offenders and rapists who are currently in female prisons are not more vulnerable than the women they're housed with.

The answer is no.

No no, no no no, no no no no,
There ARE limits!

Just reposting this from HecatesCats as it is absolutely spot on:

Who benefits and who loses? Women do not benefit from males in the female estate. Women and girls do not benefit from males in female sports. Women and girls do not benefit from sharing mixed sex spaces with males. Who are we doing any of this FOR? And why? Not women and girls. Any movement that requires women and girls to relinquish their rights to single sex provision is anti-feminist.

and I will add:

Who benefits by reducing a unique sex class to a mere description of their biological functions, not women and girls. Who benefits when a unique sex class has an added descriptor forced on them which renders them as a sub class within their own unique sex class, not women and girls. Who benefits when a unique sex class is described not only as a sub class but as a negative sub class as jj has done on this thread with the description of women as non trans women, not women and girls. For the record jj, using the term non trans women for women is straight out of the patriarchy handbook, states clearly the inferiority you assign to women as not only lesser than men but lesser than men who believe themselves to be women, could your misogyny be any more evident?

@Mummyoflittledragon

Why is the fact that transwomen as a group more vulnerable than men a problem for women? They are less vulnerable as a group than women as a group. Why can’t they be protected in male prisons?

Interestingly enough both rates of sexual assaults and rates of assaults on prison staff have both been shown to be fairly consistently marginally higher in the female estate than the men's.

There were just under 1000 prisoner or prisoner assaults in the female estate last year meaning more than one in five prisoners were assaulted over the course of the year. Violence of all types across both estates is rising. Staff and budget cuts are having a devastating impact. This is the real scandal, and it is being obscured by the hyper focus on the very small number of trans people in the system and the handful of assaults they may have committed over the last decade.

For the record jj, using the term non trans women for women is straight out of the patriarchy handbook, states clearly the inferiority you assign to women as not only lesser than men but lesser than men who believe themselves to be women, could your misogyny be any more evident?

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans' but I am forbidden from using it on these boards which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-prisoner-branded-one-scotlands-11837767.amp

Is this person more or less vulnerable in the mens than the abused women in the womens estate ?

The word is “woman”, JJ, and you’re not just allowed to use it, it’s positively encouraged.

Still no, jj.

This is the real scandal

Don't talk about that, talk about this?

No. Go and start a thread on that if you like.

I'll ask again as many people have: why cannot vulnerable TW in the prison estate have their needs met in other ways than putting them into the female estate?

which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

Tell me about it.

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans'

Yes. Women and men. They're not banned here.

Jj is avoiding the use of cis by saying none transwomen

It doesn't mean the same as woman
It means a subset of women who identify with the gender as welll as sex woman
Since she is therefore assigning gender to people
Therefore we should just report none trans women
?

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans' but I am forbidden from using it on these boards which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

No you are not. The word is 'women'.

Transwomen and women.

Transmen and men.

It's really not that difficult. There is no need to use the word 'cis' because there is already a perfectly good word to use to describe someone like me and that word is 'woman'. I don't want to be redefined as a subset of my own sex.

For the record there is a perfectly good word to describe 'not trans' but I am forbidden from using it on these boards which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

There is no other perfectly good word to describe women other than women no prefix necessary, there are women and there are transwomen, that's it no linguistic contortion required, see easy peasy.

Easy, but I’m sure we’re about to be corrected, more in sorrow than anger about how it’s all just so much more complex than our tiny wee brains could possibly fathom.

We’ve come quite a way from the topic of the thread, now.

@MichelleofzeResistance

which results in certain linguistic contortions I agree.

Tell me about it.

Christ yes, I got a strike for using forbidden language because I didn’t contort my language correctly. I was trying to convey that not all people born male are the same sort of trans but inadvertently used a banned way of saying it.

It's really not that difficult. There is no need to use the word 'cis' because there is already a perfectly good word to use to describe someone like me and that word is 'woman

It's a good point though - how do you differentiate between when you're talking about trans women and when you're talking about biological women if you're not allowed to use the other word on here?
You say yourself "when you're talking about someone like me and that word is woman" - how do you talk about trans women then?
Not a massive fan of the c word myself but it does make it easier to talk without dismissing everyone else as blokes.

Women and transwomen

Another case of it's very wrong and damaging to misgender people, to assume their gender, to assign labels they have not chosen themselves, and use language to them or even about them outside of their presence that they have not agreed to....

unless they're female. Then it's fine to label them any way you want and they can stuff how they feel about it.

How can anyone miss the sexism at play here?

Transwomen and women works for people who have a working def8nition of women based on biology

If you have some other definition, please share !

how do you differentiate between when you're talking about trans women and when you're talking about biological women if you're not allowed to use the other word on here?

Erm, you just did differentiate between them. Transwomen and women. Easy.

"when you're talking about someone like me and that word is woman" - how do you talk about trans women then?

I think you just demonstrated it very successfully? Women and Transwomen is quite clear to understand in that sentence.

How can anyone miss the sexism at play here?

It’s about the point where women get accused of being hysterical or in an echo chamber. Or when whataboutery or DARVO is used. Women. And their little opinions. Don’t. Matter.