Kier shows his colours

[averylongtimeago]

From Facebook, I guess he has picked a side.
51% of the population just don't count.

We’ve all got human rights. The whole bloody point is that all humans have human rights. Upholding rights is not about taking human rights away from one group to give them to another. What human rights don’t trans people currently have?
Starmer as a lawyer knows all this perfectly well. He shouldn’t be RTing misleading scaremongering memes without agreeing with them.

I am coming round to the view that he is a wet blanket.

He has a good back story so I listened to his Desert Island Discs looking to be drawn in but it was underwhelming. Whatever "it" is, he hasn't got it.

If they're thinking globally (as they must be) from what we know of the demographics of the stats they could 'remember' many of those victims plus a lot more locally by having a 'sex workers remembrance day', couldn't they?

surely you can support the trans community and women.

This.

Retweeting support for trans rights doesn’t say anything about whether and how he intends to address conflicts of rights.

Moving straight to ‘he’s picked a side’ because of a tweet like this is a bit of a leap.

I have little issue with "trans rights are human rights." It's only when the trans rights cheerfully steamroller over the rights of the other groups under the Equality Act that I find my eyebrows raising.

If they're thinking globally (as they must be) from what we know of the demographics of the stats they could 'remember' many of those victims plus a lot more locally by having a 'sex workers remembrance day', couldn't they?

Joe Biden's version yesterday:

twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1329815608469368832

Exceptionally for the use of these statistics, Biden does seem to have used only the numbers for the US. I did a quick calculation and worked out that in the US the homicide rate for trans people is about 5 per 100000 per year compared to about 1 per 100000 per year for women. However, the homicide rate for sex workers is about 200 per 100000 per year. I wondered how the rates would compared once corrected for the numbers contributed by the homicides of sex workers.

It will winds me up no end when people parrot the "remembrence" line, because they've latched onto the "most oppressed marginalized group ever in the world" idea about trans people in the UK. When white middle class students who switch gender on a regular basis are the furthest from oppressed you can get.

Yes yes the death of Rita Hester was horrific and awful, no one should end up found stabbed twenty times.
To extrapolate that to then assume all trans people are more at risk of death or more oppressed than other people simply doesn't match up with reality. In the UK a trans person is equally as likely to be a murderer as to be murdered.

Do we have an entire day of remembrance for the Palestinians for example? Entire families annihilated because of decisions made by the west? No, we don't. Because real oppression means people don't think about you or remember you at all, ever.

@TartrazineCustard

I have little issue with "trans rights are human rights." It's only when the trans rights cheerfully steamroller over the rights of the other groups under the Equality Act that I find my eyebrows raising.

No issue at all. It's the 'fight' part in which he seems unaware of exactly what he may be aligning himself to.

Trans rights ARE human rights. There's nothing controversial about that. He's not saying "and those rights are to access female only spaces, shortlist and prizes" is he?

I wondered how the rates would compared once corrected for the numbers contributed by the homicides of sex workers.

I'd also be curious to know if there were stats for homicides of gay men. Violence against transwomen may often be a type of homophobia.

• can’t speak

well labour party more interested in men in Brazil than women in the UK... how long do I stay a member?

Actually I've gone through the numbers again and I must have gone wrong before because now I have a number for the homicide rate for trans people in the US being about 2 per 100000 per year.

(40 trans people estimated for this year, 0.6% of people in the US are reported to be trans, the population of the US is 333,000,000.)

The homicide rate for men is about 4 per 100000 per year.

The issue in the US is the homicide rate for trans people is very high for particular sub-groups. In particular men of colour working as sex workers.

Also agree that trans rights are naturally human rights. Of course they are, they are humans.
I just wish some of these esteemed leaders would find the balls (ahem) to speak out against the vile abuse, death, rape, violence threats that women are receiving on a daily basis from this crowd. At the very least... As it stands, their silence just serves to condone it, which is an appalling undermining of women’s human rights

"Trans rights are human rights".... yes. Yes they are. No more, no less.
It's a vague slogan which people can attach their own meanings to. I agree with the surface meaning of it. Because it is vague and innocuous it very much avoids "showing his true colours". I imagine that it the point!

Far better for him to tweet that than "trans women are women..."

All humans have human rights. Trans people have human rights. Arguing with that slogan is picking the wrong fight, imo.

Nah, that's not "picking a side", it's saying something reassuringly meaningless.

"Trans rights are human rights" - what does that even mean? The TRA line is that everyone is trying to deny their existence or erase them, but that is nonsense; only the wildest right wing fringe elements in the USA seem to want that. Nobody is denying the existence or human rights of trans folk in the UK, even if the odd drunken male might take a swing on a night out. They'd do that to anyone who looked sideways at them.

No, the issue comes when rights collide or 'overlap' and Starmer is lawyer enough to grasp the significance of that. I don't think we can read his stance yet.

@EnjoyingTheSilence

Probably going to regret this but surely you can support the trans community and women.

I believe that it is a small minority of people that are trying cause trouble not all trans people

Well said!

This is exactly the sort of thread that means people steer clear of this board. People insist they are not "anti trans" when advocating against TWAW and I'd like to believe it but really. Arguing against trans remembrance day or this tweet, and saying it'll affect your vote or is incompatible with women's rights leaves a nasty taste. It's all a bit "all lives matter" isn't it?

If he thought skinning puppies would win him the popular vote he’d be rolling up his sleeves making knock-off uggs in his back room.

I also hate the use of "this crowd" etc in this context.

For anyone interested in the numbers, for the US, and what they say about actual risk, this is interesting:

Results. The overall homicide rate of transgender individuals was likely to be less than that of cisgender individuals, with 8 of 12 RR estimates below 1.0. However, the homicide rates of young transfeminine Black and Latina residents were almost certainly higher than were those of cisfeminine comparators, with all RR estimates above 1.0 for Blacks and all above 1.0 for Latinas.

RR = Relative Risk

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/

@longestlurkerever

This is exactly the sort of thread that means people steer clear of this board. People insist they are not "anti trans" when advocating against TWAW and I'd like to believe it but really. Arguing against trans remembrance day or this tweet, and saying it'll affect your vote or is incompatible with women's rights leaves a nasty taste. It's all a bit "all lives matter" isn't it?

And those of us who've pushed back on that sentiment (of which there are a fair number) don't exist to you, apparently. It's almost as though you're looking for excuses to "steer clear of this board."

Look, let's be clear about this. "Culture war" recruiters didn't used to come to this board for anything other than trolling us about prostitution until a chunk of the left decided to throw women under a bus. It pisses me off as well, but you can't complain they're here if you left the door wide open for them.

I was just thinking the same longestlurkerever. It does feel a bit 'all lives matter'.

I am slightly conflicted though because of the context. That whatever women do, we will always be second. That there will always others who society considers to be more marginalised and disadvantaged. That its ok, because its only women.

I completely support a group's right to human rights. It's just that in this case, I feel what that group wants is detrimental to my rights.

coffeeoverload that's a lying smear that is easily disproved.

If you can't vouch for it being true, don't repeat it!