Kier shows his colours

[averylongtimeago]

From Facebook, I guess he has picked a side.
51% of the population just don't count.

As someone on twitter pointed out - 34 children killed in Scotland this year. 0 trans people in the U.K. and yet there is a day, any women’s day is hijacked, and even the word woman is mangled.

Yes, have days to highlight injustices - but not for a group who actually have more rights than half of the population, why have they such a hold.

@EnjoyingTheSilence

Probably going to regret this but surely you can support the trans community and women.

I believe that it is a small minority of people that are trying cause trouble not all trans people

I agree

The 'human rights' that trans people believe they are being denied are the right to be allowed to create a legal fiction on their birth certificate without any gatekeeping or checks whatsoever, the right to be allowed to use spaces that are not meant for their sex and the right to deny females the their own sex segregated spaces and categories, including sports.

That is honestly it.

In law trans people have exactly the same rights as anyone else.

@longestlurkerever

This is exactly the sort of thread that means people steer clear of this board. People insist they are not "anti trans" when advocating against TWAW and I'd like to believe it but really. Arguing against trans remembrance day or this tweet, and saying it'll affect your vote or is incompatible with women's rights leaves a nasty taste. It's all a bit "all lives matter" isn't it?

So exactly which trans people are being remembered on this day? None have been murdered in the uk since one in 2018. Is it to remember the teenagers who may have died from taking unregulated drugs from an unlicensed gp? Who exactly? If we are talking about the terrible situation of deaths in Brazil, that is terrible but why on earth is the Leader of the Opposition making videos to remember a relatively small very specific group of murdered people in Brazil? What about the massive general murder rate in Brazil??

Thanks for the number crunching Nauticant very helpful.

Has it been disproved?
We can’t really personally vouch for anything in the press being true.
You’re welcome to read it and see what you think though.

What is it that has been disproved? I know that post has been deleted, but I would like to know what the claim was?!

Did anyone hear Desert Island Discs this week with Starmer? Where everything was obviously carefully pre selected for potential voter appeal and image and reflected absolutely zero about who Starmer was, what Starmer believed in, anything resembling genuineness, integrity, actual commitment to interaction with people, and a whole lot about Starmer's use of image, marketing and an advisory team?

That and the MN 'webchat' he did - no chatting actually being involved - tells you everything you need to know about this individual.

I am gender critical but I don’t think there is anything wrong with his statement and its threads like this that give Mumsnet a bad name.

I was expecting from the title that Keith Starmer had said “TWAW “ and the like which is harmful to women’s rights but simply acknowledging Trans Rememberance Day isn’t betraying women.

He could have easily said TWAW like so many of his colleagues but he didn’t.

One thing wrong with all these statements is the implication that trans people are at a much higher risk of being murdered than the population as a whole when this isn't true.

Why spread fear among trans people?

I think Keir Starmer, has perfectly illustrated the lengths modern politicians will go to, in order to present themselves as "all things to all people".
What has done here, is to out himslef as a mealy mouthed toad who will say anything to appease a minority case, without caring or thinking about the possible reaction to his actions.
Remembrance day for ZERO transgender people murdered in the UK in the past two years, yet nothing for the hundreds of women murdered in that time.

When I saw this this morning and shared it, I am not disagreeing with the fact that trans people should have human rights.
Of course they should (and do!)
But where is the national day of remembrance for murdered women?
It was a mistake to simply parrot that slogan instead of condemning all violence

A remembrance day for people who haven't actually died, who are actually one of the safest demographics in the UK with the strongest protections, is hilariously pathetic. Are we supposed to be taking this shit seriously? This nonsense deserves nothing more than an eye roll.

I wish my problems were so non existent that I had to completely make them up. Though pretending there's mass murdering of trans people taking place is completely irresponsible.

@nauticant

If they're thinking globally (as they must be) from what we know of the demographics of the stats they could 'remember' many of those victims plus a lot more locally by having a 'sex workers remembrance day', couldn't they?

Joe Biden's version yesterday:

twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1329815608469368832

Exceptionally for the use of these statistics, Biden does seem to have used only the numbers for the US. I did a quick calculation and worked out that in the US the homicide rate for trans people is about 5 per 100000 per year compared to about 1 per 100000 per year for women. However, the homicide rate for sex workers is about 200 per 100000 per year. I wondered how the rates would compared once corrected for the numbers contributed by the homicides of sex workers.

But surely most ofthe 200 sex 'workers' must have been women? so what is the 1 per 100000 figure?

If we are talking about the terrible situation of deaths in Brazil, that is terrible but why on earth is the Leader of the Opposition making videos to remember a relatively small very specific group of murdered people in Brazil?

I wonder how much the people who care about trans people in South America know about what it's like to be a poor woman in many communities over there? The brutality that some women and girls have to live alongside there is utterly terrifying. I can hardly bear reading about it it's so shocking at worst.

My university encouraged us to attend a virtual service and light a candle for trans day of remembrance. The perception among young students is that trans people are being murdered at epidemic rates. To be honest, whoever came up with the idea of trans day if remembrance is a genius. It cements the idea that trans people are victims in the highest sense and it’s also very difficult to object to without seeming like a complete dick. There’s even people on this thread saying it “looks bad” to criticise keir for regurgitating sound bites.

what is the 1 per 100000 figure?

If you look at the whole of the population of women in the US, then in any given year, about 1 in 100000 will be murdered. This will include women who are murdered who are sex workers but there are relatively few of those.

Yes it is slander, coffeeoverload and you know it! You said yourself you don't know if it's true. I suspect you know perfectly well that it isn't.

Those figures are very interesting - thanks.
That said, I would never expect any politician or public servant to wade into that argument yesterday. It's just not going to happen.
And I still don't understand how Starmer is picking a side with that tweet, or revealing anything we don't know already. The only point of interest for me - and I may be reading too much into it - is why he didn't go further than he did.

There are only so many statements a leader can make. A new leader reconstructing a destroyed party is always particularly selective about what messages they support. There has been no event that has forced him to make a statement, nothing big in the news about something done to a person who is trans to make it relevant for him to make such a statement, many other things like violence to women are still a much bigger problem, so I can can only assume he is signalling something to someone. Somebody has a boot hovering over his neck and he has no balls I assume.

Nonsense

The truth is you could take any group and have a day of remembrance for them: women murdered, children murdered, black people murdered, prostitutes murdered, gay people murdered etc. Half a million people are murdered a year globally. A tiny tiny proportion of those are trans people.

So making a decision to have a day of remembrance only for trans people, not for other groups, is a political decision. It's saying: trans people are more important than other groups.

Furthermore, it's hugely dishonest, because the implication is that these people were murdered for being trans. In the vast majority of cases they weren't. Take any other group - gay people, say. Some will be murdered for homophobic reasons. Some will be murdered for other reasons (eg partner violence). If we're commemorating the murders of a vulnerable group, surely the point is that we are remembering people who were murdered for being a member of that vulnerable group. Most murders of trans people, however, are related to their involvement in prostitution or are the result of partner violence.

I’m fed up with this . Let’s have a domestic violence day of remembrance, a backstreet abortion day of remembrance, a death in childbirth day of remembrance a cancer day of remembrance, an autism driven to suicide remembrance , an anorexia day of remembrance. None of this remembrance seems to even be helpful to people suffering from gender dysmophia just picking a trendy cause to get on a bandwagon. Commercialising sadness in people’s lives from whatever cause Losing friends and family to cancer we used to dread all the cancer initiatives . Whilst I can see that public information on health awareness is great to make sure women check breasts, go for smears i always felt all the pink October breast stuff just rubs in it the face of those suffering. My mum said there’s no escape from cancer id just like to turn on the tv and relax not see yet another blasted advert or campaign. .

I stand by my comments. I think of you're trying to bring people round to your way of thinking you're going about it completely the wrong way. I am sympathetic to your arguments, I've defended JK Rowling against friends who thought she was totally wrong for expressing a view, but I'm uncomfortable with the "it's us or them" rhetoric that goes on and the idea that any support for equal rights for trans people must be the result of some faceless cabal with foots on necks. It's grim and it makes me question all your other arguments too.

the idea that any support for equal rights for trans people must be the result of some faceless cabal with foots on necks.

In what way do trans people not have equal rights to everyone else, in law, in the UK?