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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

971 replies

chilling19 · 31/10/2020 07:01

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

OP posts:
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14
Sexnotgender · 01/11/2020 13:08

@Needmoresleep

An academic told me about the toilets in her building being made gender neutral. She used to watch muslim and overseas atudents have to go out on the rain to access single sex facilities on the next building.

It made her sad to see evidence of the lack of agency of some of the least powerful members of the University. A very small number of special voices clearly outweigh those of a number of less special people.

That’s shit!! Why can’t people see what a terrible situation this is creating for women in a bid to accommodate men? It’s heartbreaking.
chilling19 · 01/11/2020 13:36

Michelle Nailed it. We really are not seen at all. That does make things easier - we can dispense with the reasoned arguments and just stick to NO, and watch them stumble and fall in bewilderment. Then get angry when they realise that the law, that women fought so hard for, backs us up. So JJ and your ilk - the answer is NO.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 01/11/2020 13:49

Yes. The University was a former FE college in an area close to significant Muslim communities.

For me one of the most remarkable aspects of the whole self ID debate, not just toilets, is the way the needs of Muslim, Orthodox Jewish and other women have been ignored.

Winesalot · 01/11/2020 14:11

For me one of the most remarkable aspects of the whole self ID debate, not just toilets, is the way the needs of Muslim, Orthodox Jewish and other women have been ignored.

I find the retort of ‘why should someone’s religion trump a transgender person’s rights quite misinformed. Let’s start with how many of those women that are now being excluded from using facilities to allow them to leave the house, actually have had the CHOICE of their religion and go from there shall we?

Nothing like the privilege of thinking everyone has choices in these things is there? And again it shows the misogynistic arguments up and again shows how little these people know about being a women.

RedDogsBeg · 01/11/2020 14:11

@Needmoresleep

Yes. The University was a former FE college in an area close to significant Muslim communities.

For me one of the most remarkable aspects of the whole self ID debate, not just toilets, is the way the needs of Muslim, Orthodox Jewish and other women have been ignored.

The most vocal proponents would have you believe they are liberal, care and fight for everyone, and yet when the questions are asked about the needs of Muslim, Orthodox Jewish women, disabled women the silence is deafening.

The question was swerved by our friend on this very thread.

The simple fact is their version of inclusion is deliberately excluding, they know it, we know it and they just don't give a damn.

RedDogsBeg · 01/11/2020 14:18

A certain well known TRA dismissed female victims of rape and violence and their desire for male free spaces with the immortal words that they should just get over it. I think I have read a similar rebuttal regarding religious women, i.e., their religious beliefs should be disregarded in favour of this fabulous new ideology and if they can't/won't then tough, they should just stay at home out of sight and mind. Progressive, inclusive, liberal, caring, isn't it.

MaudTheInvincible · 01/11/2020 15:23

It's the most regressive, excluding, illiberal and selfish regime I've seen.

Its absolute adherence to superficial and damaging stereotypes still astonishes me, and I've been paying attention to this for half a decade.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/11/2020 15:33

Sorry, what is, MaudTheInvincible?

Typesofcatalogue · 01/11/2020 15:34

Religion is a choice (in UK). Transsexuality is a medical diagnosis.

FloralBunting · 01/11/2020 15:46

Transsexuality is a medical diagnosis.

Exclusionary transphobia! Take yourself off to the gulag for more education please. Gatekeeper!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/11/2020 15:46

@Typesofcatalogue

I thought it was regarded as transphobic to link trans identity to a medical condition

HecatesCats · 01/11/2020 15:50

@Typesofcatalogue

Religion is a choice (in UK). Transsexuality is a medical diagnosis.

www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804

GroundAlmonds · 01/11/2020 15:57

@Typesofcatalogue

Religion is a choice (in UK). Transsexuality is a medical diagnosis.
It’s Gender Dysphoria that is a medical diagnosis.
RedDogsBeg · 01/11/2020 16:06

@Typesofcatalogue

Religion is a choice (in UK). Transsexuality is a medical diagnosis.
Oh dear,oh dear, oh dear where have you been, transexuality and medical diagnosis in the same sentence, so last century. Compulsory re-education for you.
HecatesCats · 01/11/2020 16:13

You're lucky you only blurted that out on FWR types, hurry along now. If they come looking for you we'll point in the opposite direction.

Sexnotgender · 01/11/2020 16:15

@MaudTheInvincible

It's the most regressive, excluding, illiberal and selfish regime I've seen.

Its absolute adherence to superficial and damaging stereotypes still astonishes me, and I've been paying attention to this for half a decade.

Can we add humourless to that list? I’ve never seen such a po faced humourless pile of shit in my life.
Typesofcatalogue · 01/11/2020 16:36

It’s Gender Dysphoria that is a medical diagnosis.

You know what I mean. Either way, people end up at an nhs clinic undergoing medical transition because of a medical diagnosis. Religion is a choice.

Religious belief is not a good enough reason to exclude someone from a public toilet.

HecatesCats · 01/11/2020 16:39

Would you mind going into a bit more detail types. I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from on this.

Winesalot · 01/11/2020 16:50

Religious belief is not a good enough reason to exclude someone from a public toilet.

And there are absolutely NO women in who have no choice on their religion, of course. Nothing to see here....

Eowynthewarrior · 01/11/2020 16:50

I came to this board after a dreadful experience dining at a new posh restraurant, needing to change sanitary protection and discovering half way through dinner the loos were mixed sex and not single cubicles either but shared washbasins. I was worried I’d flooded and would need to clean my dress. I was having dinner luckily with my male best friend. He first thought I didn’t like to use the loos as they were full of men and dimly lit and suggested he come in the loos . I had to explain to him that it wasn’t just feeling unsafe but that I might need to clean my dress which was obviously out of the question. He entirely understood and we left and I had to use a disgusting but at least single sex loo at the station. It got me thinking that if I had had a business client with me or a man other than one of my close mates there’s no way I would. have had that conversation. I work with clients all over the world who might visit London and have friends from all backgrounds and religions. I would have been mortified had I selected that restaurant to take a female Jewish or Muslim client to .., I can’t imagine how difficult they would feel. Or if I was dining with a friend who needed to adjust her wig after chemo or prosthetic breast after a mastectomy. No woman wants to be adjusting her appearance under the male gaze .

Needless to say I never went back and neither did my friend. Now usually I would have written a formal complaint to the management but felt unable to do so given the risk of being labelled transphobic.

I dint believe mixed sex single cubicles are the answer either, unless it is in a tiny cafe say with space for only one loo. My objection to them is that they are dirty by design. They are small and the basin is too near the loo. Bacteria can transfer to the basin from the loo when flushed .. faecal plume can go six feet from the loo. So you wash your hands in the basin but it’s not clean. You then have to touch the toilet cubicle door to get out .. dirtying your hands again. This sounds paranoid but it’s basic hygiene. Especially with covid. We all know not everyone washes their hands. There are also other issues that I can envisage like men just peeing in the sink.. it happens . Plus spy cameras
I can see that family loos which are mixed sex could be helpful for parents to take their kids if a different sex into. I was a carer for my father and a larger family loo would have been helpful with his disability. But both men and women need single sex spaces. Make friends of mine say they don’t want to share with women. They feel it would be rude, ungentlemanly, and woukd never use a urinal in a space with women in it and thus reckon they’d waste time queing when they can just pee .

Datun · 01/11/2020 17:03

I’ve never seen such a po faced humourless pile of shit in my life.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

RedDogsBeg · 01/11/2020 17:05

@Typesofcatalogue

It’s Gender Dysphoria that is a medical diagnosis.

You know what I mean. Either way, people end up at an nhs clinic undergoing medical transition because of a medical diagnosis. Religion is a choice.

Religious belief is not a good enough reason to exclude someone from a public toilet.

Religious belief, safety, privacy, dignity are all perfectly good reasons to exclude someone from a public toilet that is not for their sex.

Please elucidate on exactly what medical transition you are talking about.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/11/2020 17:10

I thought religion, like sex, was protected under the EA2010?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 01/11/2020 17:13

Religious belief is not a good enough reason to exclude someone from a public toilet

yeah, all those women born into strict mulsim or jewish families should just sort their shit out or stay the fuck indoors. they've brought it on themselves

jfc

ThinEndOfTheWedge · 01/11/2020 17:21

Religious belief is not a good enough reason to exclude someone from a public toilet

But the usual brigade are perfectly happy in excluding these women from their own toilets.

Bullshitters to left and bullshitters to the right...

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