Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

[chilling19]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

@Escapeplanning

This is no laughing matter.

Pompous arse. You are the laughing matter, you've made yourself one right here.

Um.....

Clearly I wasn't replying to you was I Floisme? Unless you think a post landing below yours is always a reply to you even though posters have no control at all over post position?

I feel duty bound to admit that 'no laughing matter' wasn't a direct quote from our learned friend, but rather paraphrasing from the 'How to refuse to take no for an answer' textbook they seem to be using.

No just clarifying Escape. I felt slightly bad for our friend - my female conditioning and all that

That's funny because I've taken to hopping over the long lectures as they were looking like system duplications before the system even started to do that, so your textbook phrase worked on me, looked like a direct quote.

I have no pity, all this whataboutery we are served up here just proves it's not needed.

Women will be guaranteed access to female-only lavatories in public buildings, the government has said.

Wonderful news.

@jj1968

And by the way people aren't necessarily opposed to bathroon bills because they care about trans rights or are because they are brainwashed woke idiots but because they can recognise an unworkable and overly authoritarian law when they see one.

Hmm, if we accept your posturing, which I don't personally, I wonder if most women and feminists would still agree with you if they knew that the vast majority of transwomen hold on to their penises. The answer is NO jj.

Hmm, if we accept your posturing, which I don't personally, I wonder if most women and feminists would still agree with you if they knew that the vast majority of transwomen hold on to their penises.

Surveys suggest they don't.

I'm sure you'd find a huge amount of condition amongst the public if you really drilled down into it. That's why Stonewall have opted for stealth and no debate, so the confusion provides cover for policy shifts, Anecdotally speaking I've noticed that people I talk to are confused about the meaning of Transman and Transwoman, assuming that the former refers to male people who have transitioned to female and the latter to female people who have transitioned to male.

Confusion not condition

@ArabellaScott

Women: 'we want and need single sex spaces'

TRAs: 'you can't have them '

Is the gist of all of this, yes?

Isn't it more like

Women: 'we want and need to keep our single sex spaces'

TRAs: 'you can't have them'

I'm sure you'd find a huge amount of condition amongst the public if you really drilled down into it. That's why Stonewall have opted for stealth and no debate, so the confusion provides cover for policy shifts, Anecdotally speaking I've noticed that people I talk to are confused about the meaning of Transman and Transwoman, assuming that the former refers to male people who have transitioned to female and the latter to female people who have transitioned to male.

Bears repeating.

@HecatesCats

Confusion not condition

Looking forward to this being translated into 'contrition' by jj...

Yes, Asking, quite.

I think it's very telling that you see the testimony of gender nonconforming lesbians discussing how the behaviour of some people towards them in single sex spaces impacts on them as one big joke.

I think it's very telling that you jj1968 hear, read and see the testimony of rape survivors, trauma victims, old women, young women and girls, gender non conforming women, lesbians, disabled women, women adhering to their religion and dismiss them out of hand, it's no joke to them that they are effectively prevented from accessing public spaces to live their lives. They clearly matter not to you, you are quite happy for them to be unable or unwilling on the grounds of safety, privacy and dignity to access the services that were set up for THEM to do so.

Your dismissal of women and their needs disgusts me. Let no-one ever forget that you think Karen White has some kind of right to use female toilets and changing rooms, even more than that you believe that Karen White should be welcomed with open arms into such places.

And this bullshit about feminist organisations being fully on board with the erosion of sex exceptions in the Equality Act is nonsense. This stance by WEP has decimated their support. Fully two thirds of paying founder members have left since it started and they are limping along on handouts from a woke dude bro friend of the high up lib fems to meet the monthly payroll.

Hear, Hear, Escape.

Wow, Escape that's interesting.

A related thread I started a week or so ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4058470-the-big-lie-how-the-wep-was-always-about-gender-rather-than-sex

@ChattyLion

Facefull I’m sorry that you had to deal with all of that at such a young age (or at any age, ever).

Thank you. I'm having a day of celebrating that I've made it to my forties (it's not my birthday or anything, I'm just having a bit of a proud of me moment).

You know I mentioned that talking about this stuff is good for reflection and working out overlaps and interlinking things?

I spent last night thinking about the other person I knew IRL who said they experienced horrendous lesbophobia from their family at a young age. They told their dad when they were 9/10 that they were a lesbian.

Their dad's reaction was to punch them.
It's obviously fucking horrendous.

I am uneasy about it being labelled as simply lesbophobia - it was the experience Karen Jones told me they had, when we were talking about experiences of growing up gay/knowing before puberty that we were attracted to women, before I knew who they were. I would absolutely describe it as transphobia - it is underpinned with lesbophobia only if you are using the TWAW narrative.
And I am in no shape or form condoning or justifying Karen's father's reaction.

Ties in with not distinguishing between lesbian women and trans lesbian women's experiences, I think?

Glad to hear you're celebrating, Facefull.

And yes, agree what you describe sounds like transphobia, which does exist but has now become a term so ridiculously overused that it's almost lost all meaning.

Women will be guaranteed access to female-only lavatories in public buildings, the government has said.

I've actually just had a conversation with my housing support worker, and the Jones experience fell out (we were talking about previous triggers wrt my mental health disasters).

She pre-empted me on the point about single sex spaces being so fucking important, and was horrified by the safeguarding issues that they may have breached. It's the first irl conversation I've had about supporting single sex spaces, other than with a friend, and I apologised for feeling like I do. She said I absolutely didn't need to.

That felt huge - I was expecting to be given the equality/ex offenders deserve compassion and we should disregard their crimes/they wouldn't be out if they weren't safe/stop fussing/they're the exception spiel that I had a couple of years ago.

That's great to hear Faceful. Women speaking out more systematically in organised groups in the past two years has been so important.

It's good to know that she was supportive and understanding Facefull, just as she should be. I'm so sorry about your past experiences

At one point I said "the only other people who have made me feel able to talk to about this are internet feminists, and they have been amazing", because you have. Thank you all again the inadvertent space.

It chimes in with too other experiences where someone else's safety was prioritised over mine, and it contributed to me being directly put at further risk of harm.

My mum sent my brother and me to judo classes when I was 9 and he was 11. She was worried about him being bullied at school, and I got asked if I wanted to join too.
After a few classes, I got badly bruised when I got paired up with him and he threw me across the room.

My mum's response was that the lessons were too risky for me, and I stopped going.
My brother started abusing me around that time, and then he got added training in martial arts.

I believe that enabled him to use some of them in the physical violence I experienced, as well as making me believe he could cause serious injury if I didn't comply with him with the other stuff.

My ability to have a better chance of physically defending myself was taken away.

It's not the same thing, but the theme of
?power? ?safety? being awarded and removed, and its consequences, is in there somewhere.