Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

@Imnobody4

Kemi Badenoch The Exchequer Secretary and Equalities Minister In the H of C

The government believes that the protection of single-sex spaces, as provided for in the Equality Act, is important. The Act makes clear that providers have the right to restrict the use of spaces on the basis of sex, and exclude transgender people, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate, if this is justified.

At this stage, we are not proposing further legislative guidance but we will keep this under review. The Equality and Human Rights Commission is independent of the government and makes its own decisions in relation to drafting the guidance that it creates and publishes.

And last night jj generously donated to Ann Sinnott in support of her challenge to the EHRC misleading guidance

Where's yours?

Sigh.

Ours has resulted in:

Women will be guaranteed access to female-only lavatories in public buildings, the government has said.

Maybe these organisations should concentrate on getting the same rights for women as we have in the UK. Any country that doesn't provide eg paid pregnancy leave for women is deeply misogynistic and no model that we in the UK should want to follow.

@Facefullofcake

Can we see the uk version please? Signed by not trans women service users?

Your figures suggest that under ten service providers in every US state, on average, signed. How would we work out the uk equivalent to your figures? Population density? Geographical spread?

@Imnobody4

Kemi Badenoch The Exchequer Secretary and Equalities Minister In the H of C

The government believes that the protection of single-sex spaces, as provided for in the Equality Act, is important. The Act makes clear that providers have the right to restrict the use of spaces on the basis of sex, and exclude transgender people, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate, if this is justified.

At this stage, we are not proposing further legislative guidance but we will keep this under review. The Equality and Human Rights Commission is independent of the government and makes its own decisions in relation to drafting the guidance that it creates and publishes.

Minister for Women Baroness Berridge

"My Lords, on single-sex spaces, the overwhelming majority of occasions on which they are used—we can all bear testament to that—is on self-identification, and the Government do not intend to interfere with that."

They are not changing the Equality Act. It doesn;t matter what they say to try and pretend they are giving something to both sides. Unless they change the law then all credible legal opinion is that trans women have the right to use toilets inline with their gender. Liz Truss' department was even prepared to go to court against Ann Sinnott to defend that.

@OldCrone

You don't get to speak for all women, lots of women, most women in fact and certainly most feminists strongly disagree with you.

Do you have a source for this? Where all women were surveyed and 'most' women and 'most' feminists disagreed with us? Or have you just made that up?

I think from recent posts thats a big ‘no’ to a source

Can we see the uk version please?
Signed by not trans women service users?

Can we see the uk version please?
Signed by not trans women service users?

The lesbians in the other articles I posted said differently. You really are showing how little you know about what life is like for visibly gender nonconforming people.

'Visibly 'gender no conforming woman' here. One of those you care deeply about who may be mistaken for men and ejected from female only spaces.

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Almost as if men see stereotypes as what is important, where women recognise actual sex. Its an odd phenomenom.

The lesbians in the other articles I posted said differently. You really are showing how little you know about what life is like for visibly gender nonconforming people.

'Visibly 'gender no conforming woman' here. One of those you care deeply about who may be mistaken for men and ejected from female only spaces.

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Almost as if men see stereotypes as what is important, where women recognise actual sex. Its an odd phenomenom.

@Datun

Where's yours?

Sigh.

Ours has resulted in:

Women will be guaranteed access to female-only lavatories in public buildings, the government has said.

Yes, women, including trans women, will be guaranteed access to female only lavatories, somehow, by possibly changing building regulations, depending what a review finds.

Do you not understand how democracy works? Law changes have to be voted on in Parliament. There are no new laws tabled for debate that would end the right of trans women to use toilets inline with their gender. It doesn;t matter how many times you go but, but, because some shiny suited Tory is puling the wool over your eyes, what counts is the law and that is not changing.

The lesbians in the other articles I posted said differently. You really are showing how little you know about what life is like for visibly gender nonconforming people.

'Visibly 'gender no conforming woman' here. One of those you care deeply about who may be mistaken for men and ejected from female only spaces.

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Almost as if men see stereotypes as what is important, where women recognise actual sex. Its an odd phenomenom.

Maybe these organisations should concentrate on getting the same rights for women as we have in the UK. Any country that doesn't provide eg paid pregnancy leave for women is deeply misogynistic and no model that we in the UK should want to follow.

Maybe these organisations should concentrate on getting the same rights for women as we have in the UK. Any country that doesn't provide eg paid pregnancy leave for women is deeply misogynistic and no model that we in the UK should want to follow.

Definitely an echo here !

The lesbians in the other articles I posted said differently. You really are showing how little you know about what life is like for visibly gender nonconforming people.

'Visibly 'gender no conforming woman' here. One of those you care deeply about who may be mistaken for men and ejected from female only spaces.

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Almost as if men see stereotypes as what is important, where women recognise actual sex. Its an odd phenomenom.

Tonight's donation from JJ is to...

LGB Alliance

Thanks for all your work here promoting their reasons for organising.

Oh sorry did I forget a few?
'You don't know what it's like.'
'You've no idea.'
'Don't you know...?'
'Loser.'
'Fascist.'

It's still 'no'.

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Well clearly some women have had different experiences. I'm not saying all gender nonconforming women oppose bathroom bills, but that some have done because they think it would be harmful to them. I'm not even saying they are right necessarily (I think they are but its not my point), or that their views should supercede other views. What I objected to was attempts to erase them from the debate and the refusal to address or even acknowledge their concerns.

@Escapeplanning

Tonight's donation from JJ is to...

LGB Alliance

Thanks for all your work here promoting their reasons for organising.

Keep it up! Squander your money anyway you want, makes no difference to me. I support wealth redistribution, I'm sure someone out there needs a new mattress.

If we’re a small, deluded & irrelevant bunch of women, why do the likes of jj and milad spend so much time arguing with us?

Constantly needing a new mattress, me.

@jj1968

I have been 'misgendered' by many many men. Never by a woman oddly'

Well clearly some women have had different experiences. I'm not saying all gender nonconforming women oppose bathroom bills, but that some have done because they think it would be harmful to them. I'm not even saying they are right necessarily (I think they are but its not my point), or that their views should supercede other views. What I objected to was attempts to erase them from the debate and the refusal to address or even acknowledge their concerns.

I don't think its so much people wanting to 'erase them from the debate'..as others trying to shoehorn them in to prop up their own view, which really, has fuck all to do with gender non conforming women or how they are percieved, and everything to do with male people, which is a totally different thing. Some women may have had that experience, if they did, thats shit. But it is not a common thing, or not among me and my butch mates anyway. Men call us men, often. But women know we are women, is the general rule.

Actually jj, the constant 'its about gender presentation' has me a little stumped. Because if its about presentation, then despite being of the female sex, I am very very much of the 'masculine' presentation, if its presentation that matters, not sex, am I meant to be in the blokes?! It seems to be you who is arguing about it being about stereotypes no? But then equally whining about gender non conforming women being disallowed in the womens?

This thread is glitching like hell..

Honestly, I would say men know we are women too, from the amount of times I have been groped by randomers Just seems an excuse at times 'oy oy, are you a gadgee or a girl?!'

And for the lovely Keira Bell.