Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

[chilling19]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

@Escapeplanning

Things like that would likely happen a lot more if spaces were strictly regulated by birth sex which is why many gender nonconforming women don't want them. Why don't those women count?

Told you it's a dead cert.

Of course it is. Because you have no answer to why these women's experiences don't count. So instead you make snarky comments to try and bury it.

Don't be so mean Pear. That took half an hour of googling to dredge up an ITV news item. That's serious research.

Dying at the idea that wearing a frock and a bit of lippy 'gendered presentation' means someone is a woman and therefore not a threat.

@Escapeplanning

Don't be so mean Pear. That took half an hour of googling to dredge up an ITV news item. That's serious research.

It took seconds there are numerous examples. Lots of butch women have told you they don't want this. One quite recently on this very forum. Why do your views count above theirs?

Don't think so, 334bu!

I was introduced to Jones by one (again, more fool me) - they met in prison, and a while later they met again in a women's (ex offenders?) hostel.

She had been in prison for trying to kill her adoptive mother when she was a teenager. *I met her years after and didn't know her history at first). She turned out to have a few scary traits - stalking women, writing poison pen letters, being extremely verbally sexually inappropriate to women in the street and in person, I later found out she made racist and conspiracy theory toting youtube videos, and threatened violence to anyone disagreeing with her (inc authorityfigures). I am not sure that she was definitely a sexual assault risk though, for a few reasons.

I do know I asked her to leave my house after she threatened to punch me, and that she is excluded from several women's services and mixed sex hostel services locally . I think at that point I had been trying to help her find a solicitor.

I no longer make friends with strangers or friends of strangers, btw. Too many of them are predators with a vulnerable person lock on, and I'm (still) far too trusting and wobble boundaried.

What are the observable physical characteristics that seperate all those born female from those born male?

There are quite a few that I cannot believe you have missed discussions on this.

The differences Include the difference between male and female gait caused by pelvis and hip placement. There are studies that have shown quite reliably that people pick this up subconsciously to pick the sex of a silhouetted person walking. I always find this interesting. It is also something that cannot be mimicked apparently.

More importantly why do your views represent 'want women want' whilst alternative views are misogyny? Why don't the views of many butch lesbians represent what women want. Was Wittig perhaps right when she wrote that as a Lesbian I am not a Woman?

jj1968

"MrsSteveMcDonald"
"Women have protection under the EA to have single sex spaces. This also allows transwomen with GRCs to be excluded perfectly legally. Why are you saying that you have the right to enter when the EA clearly states you don't?"

That's not what the courts, the EHRC, widespread legal opinion or the Government say unfortunately. There are some limited circumstances where exclusion can be legal. Toilets are not one of them.

Haha! This is from the opening post:

Women will be guaranteed access to female-only lavatories in public buildings, the government has said

Honestly. It's a little disturbing, to be honest. Predating men in women's refuges are really the victims, a woman who owns a small business, and is relentlessly harassed online is a crazy liar and 'rams her homophobic beliefs down her employees throats', in the form of believing in soulmates, there are so many transwomen, women have lost the entire balance, and yet they are as rare as hen's teeth, and refusing to admit men to women spaces will result in the destruction of our tourist industry.

It's not even hyperbole.

None of it makes the slightest bit of sense and each post contradicts the one before.

Jj excitedly picks out random words from My Big Book of Deluded Ravings and just strings them together.

It's like being forced to listen to the demented love child of Dr Seuss and the Jaberwocky.

Here's Anne talking about being hounded out of a Labour CLP by TRAs. Her appearance was no protection.

Why don't the opposing views of many other butch lesbians matter, jj?
Or do all butchers have a monobrain on these matters?

*butches, not butchers.

I see we're now trying to segue into "butch lesbians like mixed-sex loos too".

Cool story.

@PearPickingPorky

I see we're now trying to segue into "butch lesbians like mixed-sex loos too".

Cool story.

Do you think we'll get told femmes love trans women in loos because they can share makeup?

@Facefullofcake

Why don't the opposing views of many other butch lesbians matter, jj? Or do all butchers have a monobrain on these matters?

I think they do matter. But I do not think they should be typified as what women want when woman clearly want a range of things. Lots of women do not want toilets policed by sex for very good reasons that go beyond respecting trans identities. They think they will ultimately be harmful for women. That it could lead to masculine appearing or presenting women facing harassment and abuse. They aren't misogynists for thinking that. They are not gaslighting you. They are women with a very different opinion, and one I share, which is that some of the aims of the GC movement if met will be harmful to women.

And yet you act like these women don't matter. Almost as if womanhood is conditional on agreeing with you.

And yet you act like these women don't matter. Almost as if womanhood is conditional on agreeing with you.

Apologies @Facefullofcake This was directed at the sentiment of the thread rather than you personally.

Still waiting for you to tell us how we tell all the men apart from all the transwomen, on-sight, jj?

You're holding out on us. I don't understand why.

@PearPickingPorky

Still waiting for you to tell us how we tell all the men apart from all the transwomen, on-sight, jj?

You're holding out on us. I don't understand why.

Still holding out for you to tell me how you can tell all those born male from all those born female just on sight.

You first, jj

jj1968
That's not what the courts, the EHRC, widespread legal opinion or the Government say unfortunately. There are some limited circumstances where exclusion can be legal. Toilets are not one of them.

sigh

Miss! Miss!!!

Someone is wrong on the internet again....

Apologies Facefullofcake This was directed at the sentiment of the thread rather than you personally.

It's entirely your sentiment and definitely not that of the thread. You are confused again.

I clearly cross posted - I'm on a rubbish phone - unlike your posher one. I bet you're down south too - you probably not a fraction of a second's worth of extra time privilege on top.
(That's how this all works in your world, right?)

My opinion still stands, based on everything I've read of your posts over the past while.

*got, not 'not'

@PearPickingPorky

You first, jj

Well in both cases you clearly can't can you. Luckily in the vast majority of cases you can. In the cases you can't then I would suggest that unless someone is acting suspiciously then it's probably best to assume they are in the right space rather than making an assumptions about someone's cromosones on the basis of their appearance. You are quite likely to be wrong.

I'm genuinely curious, has anyone on this thread come across a male presenting man in a woman's toilets who claimed to be a trans woman? Has it ever happened anywhere in the world? Is it really something people should be worried about?