Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

[chilling19]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

'no doubt one reason why trans women, just like all women"

You mean " transwomen just like women" I think? No need for the "all".as transwomen are all male

@CorvusPurpureus

Yes, and it's your husbands, boyfriends and sons doing it to us. If 52% of the population cant prevent male sexual violence then how on earth do you expect 0.3% of the population to do it? It's like telling women not to worry about sexual assault, just take up martial arts as if that is some magic bullet that will decimate the patriarchy.

I certainly hope it isn't my male relatives who are the problem. Collectively, though, it is males. Being violent to other males.

It's not our problem to fix, & certainly not at the cost of our own safety.

Go sort it out with the other blokes. It's your issue, not ours, & you have your own spaces - which we certainly aren't encroaching on - to resolve your problem.

Crack on, & leave us out of it. Thanks.

So to summarise, your position is don't care if you get raped as a results of policies I want and if you do it's your fault for not sorting out male violence?

You can see why that's not likely to catch on can't you? That for most people simply shrugging your shoulders and saying don't care if trans women get raped, they should just sort out male violence, is pretty reprehensible. I suppose those people are just woke idiots being kind. Although I'd suggest they actually just possess basic humanity.

There's some paint here which urgently needs to be watched in case it starts not to be dry any more.

How on earth are 0.3% of the population supposed to prevent male violence when 52% of women have been unable to.

How is allowing males into the women's toilets actually assisting women in defending themselves against violent men since we have not been able to so far? And by the way, thanks for acknowledging the risk that women face everyday and that we feel we are losing the fight to prevent. Glad that you admit it.

This is such a shit dismissive response.

Actually, I was saying that males who need this extra support should get it. However, males should be listening to women who are telling them not to add that that risk that you point out we are not able to prevent. Unlike YOU who keeps on ignoring women explaining to you time and time again just why it is inappropriate for these males to feel that women should be allowing them access into our spaces.

Worried about being raped, not my problem, just sort out male violence. If it were that easy we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

And women are telling you we don't want to be raped in our toilets by any males, on this very thread and on others that you have been on. Yet you, personally, repeatedly ignore us.

We know you, personally, cannot sort out male violence (if only it were that easy indeed), but you are very vocal on FWB and you have told us about spreading the word on how horrible women are on this board, so you have access to other people who can also get together to start doing something.

So, as you have told us that males have been using women's toilets now for what was it 60+ years, maybe they also have had plenty of opportunity to campaign for these facilities for themselves. Rather than telling us that it is now too late, do something about it.

There is this great initiative being done by the current government asking for input to make sure that ALL the different needs can be taken into account. I suggest you start there jj.

Work with all those activists you mentioned, and get it going.

You know, just like women have before and are continuing to do so.

Male on male violence must be tackled but the solution cannot be to make women more vulnerable. If males are allowed to access female spaces, how many females raped would be acceptable collateral damage to you ?

It's probably safe to go with the safe statistical position that roughly 98% of rapists, whoever they're raping, are male.

Obviously, I think, most women, who definitely represent the 'more raped' group would be for Less Rape Is A Good Thing.

Which is readily achievable, if only in female only spaces, by excluding males.

I think it's terrible that some of you guys are raping each other, & it would be nice if you stopped, obviously.

I've no idea how you do that, & it's really not a problem I'm equipped to solve, but I can understand that women are safer in vulnerable situations away from you chaps whilst you're figuring out this 'Ok so none of us should be raping people, did everyone get that memo?!' situation,

Do please keep us posted, we've definitely got skin in this game.

Dear lord. A man telling women how to think and how to behave to ensure men’s needs are put first. Wow what a shocker.

Luckily all the men in my life think the idea of males in female space is appalling, as any decent, right minded man who respects women’s rights would.

@CorvusPurpureus

It's probably safe to go with the safe statistical position that roughly 98% of rapists, whoever they're raping, are male.

Obviously, I think, most women, who definitely represent the 'more raped' group would be for Less Rape Is A Good Thing.

Which is readily achievable, if only in female only spaces, by excluding males.

I think it's terrible that some of you guys are raping each other, & it would be nice if you stopped, obviously.

I've no idea how you do that, & it's really not a problem I'm equipped to solve, but I can understand that women are safer in vulnerable situations away from you chaps whilst you're figuring out this 'Ok so none of us should be raping people, did everyone get that memo?!' situation,

Do please keep us posted, we've definitely got skin in this game.

And women are telling you we don't want to be raped in our toilets by any males, on this very thread and on others that you have been on. Yet you, personally, repeatedly ignore us.

If you can provide any evidence that trans inclusive toilet policies, which are normal all over the world including the US with its population of 328 million people, has caused any risk to women then please present it? If credible evidence were presented I would think again. However I do believe trans women would be at risk in male spaces, there is evidence which supports that and as there is no evidence of trans inclusive policies being a risk then on balance that seems to be the correct approach and one the public support. By all means campaign to try and change that, but I expect the lack of evidence of harm will be a real stumbling block just as it was in the fights over bathroom bills.

Still waiting for that evidence that some males who identify as women are less dangerous than other males. ??????

lack of evidence of harm

Says it all really.

By all means campaign

Very kind of you to give us your permission.

The evidence of 50 % of transwomen in prison being sex offenders is ample, imo.

Also note that transwomen committing crimes are now recorded as 'female', so in Scotland at least there will never be any evidence as the crimes will be showing as female crime.

jj can you please tell us how we tell the difference between a man and a transwoman please?

Because you accept that we are at risk from sharing loos with men. So I'd like to know how we tell them apart.

You've simply got this completely arse about tit, jj.

If you want men included in female spaces, you still have to argue that it won't negatively impact in women.

You have failed to do so. Equally, you've failed to prove that non gender conforming males need a) a special space & b) an entirely different group's space which you'd rather like to muscle into. Whether we like it or not.

Convince us that men's toilets are unsafe, & which you haven't given evidence for - we will support your campaign for separate toilets.

@334bu

Still waiting for that evidence that some males who identify as women are less dangerous than other males. ??????

I'm not aware of anything that's been published so you shall have a long wait.

Luckily however there is published evidence into the risk of trans inclusion which has concluded that trans inclusive policies do not place women at risk.

Mixed sex facilities a risk to women.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3famp

Mixed sex mental health wards a danger to women

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/lowdownnhs.info/news/high-number-of-assaults-still-take-place-on-mixed-sex-mental-health-wards/%3famp

It’s almost as if, making facilities mixed sex increases the risk to women?

Woman: actually NO, I'd rather keep this space:

JJ L: well tough, I can help myself to it & you certainly aren't allowed boundaries or the right to say NO

Hell of a Sherpa we have here, can we keep him?

Transwomen are members of the group which commit 98% of all sexual assaults so unless you have evidence to exclude them I believe the evidence already exists that as males they are a danger to women.

@CorvusPurpureus

You've simply got this completely arse about tit, jj.

If you want men included in female spaces, you still have to argue that it won't negatively impact in women.

You have failed to do so. Equally, you've failed to prove that non gender conforming males need a) a special space & b) an entirely different group's space which you'd rather like to muscle into. Whether we like it or not.

Convince us that men's toilets are unsafe, & which you haven't given evidence for - we will support your campaign for separate toilets.

Why would trans people campaign for special toilets when all over the world trans people use toilets inline with their gender and that has public support and is backed by law and supported by pretty much every major feminist and women's institution including the UN? That would seem quite a strange thing for trans people to do just a pacify a very small movement limited to the UK that is regarded as quite bizarre, regressive and deeply prejudiced by most feminists overseas.

@PearPickingPorky

jj can you please tell us how we tell the difference between a man and a transwoman please?

Because you accept that we are at risk from sharing loos with men. So I'd like to know how we tell them apart.

Good call. I'd like to know this.

"Luckily however there is published evidence into the risk of trans inclusion which has concluded that trans inclusive policies do not place women at risk."

Does anyone remember the trans woman heading a secure unit (iirc) who was in charge of collating data from detained women about whether they feel safe from sexual harm - perceived or actual - while there? I think I remember statements about how their gender identity couldn't impact the responses they would get...
Off topic, but it just sprang to mind.