Starting on 28 October Judicial Review of prison guidelines on transgender - and launch of new web site Keep Prisons Single Sex

[stumbledin]

Thanks to recent contributors to the thread started over a year ago about a woman assaulted by a trans person allowed into a women's prison www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3733987-Judicial-review-for-woman-prisoner-alleging-sexual-assault-by-trans-rapist-in-prison there is news that the court case will start this week.

Fairplay for women have info about this on their twitter account pbs.twimg.com/media/ElKU7HjWMAAcN48?format=jpg&name=900x900

Also worth following a new group Keep Prisons Single Sex who are launching their web site soon twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons

And others are also posting on this.

The point is that, when it comes to prisons (for example) I accept the need for segregation on a (biological) sex basis for the safety and dignity of all.

Great. That's the only point you raise which is relevant to this specific case. Glad to have your support!

Thanks for keeping the thread bumped.

Transwomen prisoners should be entitled to exactly the same treatment as other male prisoners. They are not women, they are transwomen.

This is not for women to solve. Sort your own stuff out, like women had to.

Checking in to thread in readiness for tomorrow’s (today’s) updates. Thank you to everyone who has campaigned to get this judicial review to this point.

As an aside, the efforts of women’s grassroots campaigns are really showing up the heavily funded trans lobby groups for the idle sods they are. They could be marshalling their resources to improve the lot of transmen and women by meeting their practical needs and addressing the kind of issues that our derailer keeps raising...

Nobody here has yet explained why one group of people deserve better treatment than another when sent to prison (for the same crime) simply on the basis of their genetics.

@MiladyRenata

I think we may be splitting hairs here. As far as I can see we are agreed on two major principles:

1. Men, trans women and other women should be held in separate spaces.

1. Trans women should receive the same treatment as other women.

Am I missing something, or are either of these incorrect?

Hi you’re missing that transwomen tend to commit male pattern offences when it comes to sexual and violent offences.

Women tend to commit theft and less violent offences.

It is for these reasons that there is a difference in the styles of incarceration.

Male pattern offences = male estate incarnation style
Female pattern offences = female estate incarnation style.

I do agree that trans people should have the option to a segregated section in the estate that matches their sex.

@Witchlight

OK, then why not treat prisoners according to the type of crime they have committed? Would that not be more effective than treating them differently according to biological sex?

I think the clothes one is allowed to wear are essential to one's mental health. I think God every day that I can wear dresses now I have come out as a trans woman.

@Butterer

I do - see my post above about separate spaces for men, trans women and other women.

thank god, not think god - sorry

Kept separately from men and other women. Treated, and allowed to dress, in a gender appropriate manner.

The point being, segregation. That's the key.

Please explain to me how allowing a trans women convict to wear a dress (lets say she's in a solitary concrete cell) puts other women at risk?

Nobody has actually argued for women prisoners being allowed to wear their own clothes.

It has been pointed out over and over again it is an existing rule.

If you think it unfair, campaign for equal rights for male prisoners.

And quite p**d off now as this thread was started to specifically track the court case staring on 28th and people will have to plough through this derail.

Maybe tomorrow when and if reports come through someone should start a thread just to report and we all agree not to feed the trolls.

This thread is now nearly as long as the original one from last year, which was full of info and relevant comment.

This thread should be used to illustrate how someone will try and erase an important issue for women's rights by going on about what about men.

I look forward to seeing a new thread on FWR about how women should campaign for equal rights for male prisoners to wear their own clothes.

But suggest we all give up on this thread.

Still not hearing any reason why allowing an trans woman in custody to wear a dress hurts or harms any other woman...

@Butterer

Can anyone direct me to how/where to donate to, btw?

I haven't seen any public crowdfunder available for this case.

The prisoner is likely to be in receipt of legal aid which is probably why there's no fundraiser. I'm sure the wider campaign would welcome some digging though.