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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Starting on 28 October Judicial Review of prison guidelines on transgender - and launch of new web site Keep Prisons Single Sex

299 replies

stumbledin · 26/10/2020 18:20

Thanks to recent contributors to the thread started over a year ago about a woman assaulted by a trans person allowed into a women's prison www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3733987-Judicial-review-for-woman-prisoner-alleging-sexual-assault-by-trans-rapist-in-prison there is news that the court case will start this week.

Fairplay for women have info about this on their twitter account pbs.twimg.com/media/ElKU7HjWMAAcN48?format=jpg&name=900x900

Also worth following a new group Keep Prisons Single Sex who are launching their web site soon twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons

And others are also posting on this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
boatyardblues · 28/10/2020 06:09

We can scroll, scroll, scroll if we are getting irritated by merailing distractors. No one has an automatic right to our consideration and time.

pinkbalconyrailing · 28/10/2020 06:19

@Butterer

Can anyone direct me to how/where to donate to, btw?
fairplay for women is a contributor and they are accepting donations to fund their brilliant work.
Deliriumoftheendless · 28/10/2020 06:31

keep the thread bumped, keep posting info about the campaign.

When Ren starts the petition for dresses for all I’ll sign it.

Safety for women! Dresses for anyone!

Could be a good slogan.

ThinEndOfTheWedge · 28/10/2020 06:57

*Trans women should receive the same treatment as other women.

Am I missing something*

You really are missing something everything.

TW are not ‘other women’ - they are not women.

You know it. We know it. Everyone knows it even when they pretend otherwise

Deliriumoftheendless · 28/10/2020 07:00

So will there be further news today? I’m not on twitter so if links are posted here I would be grateful.

boatyardblues · 28/10/2020 07:06

What time does the hearing start?

WhataFarce76 · 28/10/2020 07:24

Wow. You REALLY like dresses.
And therein lies one of the main problems. You think being a woman is intrinsically about what you wear, how passive and feminine you are. I am more than willing to bet that the majority of female prisoners wear comfortable and practical clothing ie jogging bottoms/jeans and t-shirts/tops. I bet none are swanning around in full length ballgowns covered in sequins.
Once again, clothing doth not make the man (or woman). Wearing normal or unisex clothing does not make anyone less 'female'. How can this be so important to you at the expense REAL issues being faced by women in prison? If you are 'female' on the inside as you believe, what difference would it make what you wore on the outside?

BingBongSong · 28/10/2020 07:31

Thanks for the thread, OP. I've donated to FPFW in support.

I'll keep an eye out for updates today.

FindTheTruth · 28/10/2020 07:36

Fair Play are live tweeting from the court today. don't know what time it starts ... recent judicial reviews have started at 10am.

"Follow our live tweets from court today and the hashtag #womenprisonJR "

This case is believed to be the first time the Court will consider the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010

Socrates11 · 28/10/2020 08:03

Thanks FindTheTruth for that info. FPFW have done sterling work in this area, cannot wait to see how this develops. All power to the women fighting on this issue. No men in women's prisons. #SexMatters

SophocIestheFox · 28/10/2020 08:05

Placemarking for updates on how today goes.

And moving away from the derail to focus back on the main question: are vulnerable women in danger of being locked up with male bodied prisoners? How do we keep women safe? This isn’t about the rights of trans identified people to wear dresses (massive eyeroll to that). This is about the rights of women to safety, privacy and dignity.

This review is really important, and I’m so pleased to see these boards playing a real role in getting this action off the ground. Thanks for your work, KeepPrisonsSingleSex - wishing you all the luck in the world.

EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus · 28/10/2020 08:06

If Stonewall had wanted to, they could have got segregated trans wings in men’s prisons by now with makeup & dresses & heels & whatever freely available, & the prisoners called by the names of their choice.

Apparently that wasn’t a priority for them though...

EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus · 28/10/2020 08:07

And moving away from the derail to focus back on the main question: are vulnerable women in danger of being locked up with male bodied prisoners? How do we keep women safe? This isn’t about the rights of trans identified people to wear dresses (massive eyeroll to that). This is about the rights of women to safety, privacy and dignity.

Yes. Sorry for following the derail. This is EXACTLY what it’s about, & the more sunlight that FPFW & KPSS - along with the rest of us - can throw on it the better.

FindTheTruth · 28/10/2020 08:33

from the FPFW press release

Tara Mulcair of Birnberg Peirce, solicitor for the Claimant, said:
“This case is about the proper balancing of the rights of two vulnerable groups. It does not seek to exclude all trans women from female prisons. We say that the prison service, in seeking to have due regard to the rights of transgender prisoners, has disregarded the impact of these policies on female prisoners, many of who have suffered male violence.”

testing987654321 · 28/10/2020 08:38

This case is about the proper balancing of the rights of two vulnerable groups. It does not seek to exclude all trans women from female prisons.

Why the fuck not? Give me one good reason why a man should be in a female prison.

highame · 28/10/2020 08:41

Anyone know if there;s a journalist or group doing a commentary?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 28/10/2020 08:55

It does not seek to exclude all trans women from female prisons

I guess they're setting out their stall. step 1, don't incarcerate women with violent men. step 2 can come later

it's an absolute head fuck that step 1 is required at all, but there you go

gardenbird48 · 28/10/2020 08:56

@FindTheTruth

Fair Play are live tweeting from the court today. don't know what time it starts ... recent judicial reviews have started at 10am.

"Follow our live tweets from court today and the hashtag #womenprisonJR "

This case is believed to be the first time the Court will consider the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010

Thanks for the hashtag info - this will be interesting. I wonder if they will mention the Geneva Convention which says that male and female prisoners should always be segregated - I know it is for wartime protections but I can’t see what difference it would make for this.
FindTheTruth · 28/10/2020 09:13

good point re Geneva Convention Gardenbird

Datun · 28/10/2020 09:41

Bumping this thread. Even though there are two of them.

This is a vital case. Live tweeting from Fairplay for Women and Keep Prisons Single Sex.

MaudTheInvincible · 28/10/2020 09:54

Good luck to the women involved in this case. It must be a nerve-wracking time, just before it starts, so I wish you calmness and strength for the day ahead Thanks

EyesOpening · 28/10/2020 10:01

@Datun

Bumping this thread. Even though there are two of them.

This is a vital case. Live tweeting from Fairplay for Women and Keep Prisons Single Sex.

What’s the other thread please? Have donated to FPFW
MiladyRenata · 28/10/2020 10:01

Not sure how im derailng a discussion thread about how sex segregation in prisons should work by suggesting how sex segregation in prisons should work.

Besides, nobody has yet explained why my proposal for fully segregated accommodation for trans women with full female priviliges creates any danger for other women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/10/2020 10:05

Good luck to everyone involved Thanks will be following online