Starting on 28 October Judicial Review of prison guidelines on transgender - and launch of new web site Keep Prisons Single Sex

[stumbledin]

Thanks to recent contributors to the thread started over a year ago about a woman assaulted by a trans person allowed into a women's prison www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3733987-Judicial-review-for-woman-prisoner-alleging-sexual-assault-by-trans-rapist-in-prison there is news that the court case will start this week.

Fairplay for women have info about this on their twitter account pbs.twimg.com/media/ElKU7HjWMAAcN48?format=jpg&name=900x900

Also worth following a new group Keep Prisons Single Sex who are launching their web site soon twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons

And others are also posting on this.

Not sure where Alex Davies-Jones stands?

@AchieveBelieve

Not sure where Alex Davies-Jones stands?

Hard to say from a cursory search. She seems to care about women's sport, having spoken in the HoC about the misogyny sportswomen face and the impact on female participation in sport: www.newschain.uk/news/mp-outlines-horrific-tales-call-tackle-misogyny-womens-sport-33007

She's pro inclusive language in women's services if the following tweet is anything to go by, it's a reference to a tweet specifically for trans men and non binary people 'with a cervix' (which doesn't attempt to call women by any other name).

She nominated Emily Thornberry for the leadership, Thornberry spoke out against the pledge card which described WPUK as a hate group: www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/13/labour-leadership-contenders-split-over-trans-group-pledge-card.

She's spoken about returning to work while breastfeeding and she referenced the vaginal mesh scandal in her maiden speech. She knows what a woman is. Jury's out on whether she's been captured from what I can find.

God I can’t believe the derail into how terribly sad it is that males can’t wear dresses in prison.

This is fucking serious, women have been injured. Just fuck off with your whataboutery.

@sexnotgender

You see, this is the nature of privilege. Those who have it assume it's not a big deal; trivial even. This is why everyone thinks everyone else has more privilege than they do.

How’s the campaign for dresses in prison going? I haven’t seen it publicised?

[quote MiladyRenata]@sexnotgender

You see, this is the nature of privilege. Those who have it assume it's not a big deal; trivial even. This is why everyone thinks everyone else has more privilege than they do.[/quote]
Given Stonewall’s influence over the MOJ, they could have transgender wings in men’s prisons with dresses, makeup classes & beauty salons in about five minutes if they chose. Why don’t you ask them, Milad?

mmm

when someone is describing women prisoners as 'privileged' one has to wonder

1. if they need to get outside in the fresh air a bit more
2. if they're totally on the level

I do sometimes speculate that some of the frothier visitors we get here must surely be fifth columnists.....surely? I mean otherwise, foot, meet shotgun, right?

@Sexnotgender

How’s the campaign for dresses in prison going? I haven’t seen it publicised?

Waiting to sign, here!

C’mon! Urgent!

Can't say I haven't wondered that myself Bernard

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

mmm

when someone is describing women prisoners as 'privileged' one has to wonder

1. if they need to get outside in the fresh air a bit more
2. if they're totally on the level

I do sometimes speculate that some of the frothier visitors we get here must surely be fifth columnists.....surely? I mean otherwise, foot, meet shotgun, right?

Careful, Bernard, some Twitterati may feel they’re being threatened by that.

I’d suggest foot meet mouth but that could be too violent as well.

Well look, the whole clothing thing is, in itself, pretty trivial, but it is one manifestation of the way the prison service takes a much gentler and more therapeutic approach to women (who are seen as vulnerable, damaged and in need of care) and men (who are seen as bad people in need of punishment and discipline).

My contention is that trans women likely to be similar to other women in terms of their psychology, so then need the gentle rather than the tough treatment. You may disagree.

However, it seems to me that treating someone guilty of the same crime more harshly purely because of their chromosomes is morally wrong.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5094293/Rose-West-enjoys-middle-class-life-bars.html

Case in point. Not saying I would want to trade places with her, but I think a man guilty of equally despicable crimes would be having a much harder time of it.

Then do something about mens prisons ajd how they treat their prisoners.

Womens prisons are not dumping ground for males who don't get on with the approach at their sex based prison.

I'm just going to copy this over from the other thread

this is an example of an individual who 'transitioned' while in custody

Karen Jones/ Karen Lawson

'was sentenced to life imprisonment in 2003 at age 21, for the attempted rape of a female shop assistant in Manchester. The attack took place in 2002, five days after Lawson was released early on licence after being jailed for manslaughter.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

He did achieve the privilege of being able to wear a dress in prison, and was moved to Holloway. God knows what the women who were locked up with him felt about having enforced contact with a man convicted of attempted rape. no one asked them of course

I do not think there should be enforced contact between trans women and other trans women in prison.

However I do not think trans women should be forced to share intimate spaces with men either.

And I don't see how treating trans women decently, in segregated conditions, hurts other women.

My response still stands. The people you need to be pressuring for the units you want are the ones campaigning for transgender rights - Stonewall - not the ones campaigning for women’s rights. We’re busy.

sorry, I meant "trans women and other women".

It’s clearly important to you so set up your campaign.

Loads of campaigns have sprung up from MN members.

I wish you the very best of luck with it.

another excerpt from the other thread, which our visitor seems mysteriously less keen to engage with:

Women prisoners are some of the most vulnerable people imaginable.
Almost all have been sexually assaulted, half in childhood. They genuinely do have recorded levels of suicide attempts at 46%, and suicide completion also drastically higher than the average, and far higher than male prisoners. Most are not violent. They are just 5% of all prisoners and just 3% of sex offenders

but by all means, let's prioritise a man's desire to change up his clothing choices over protecting them

They can do that in the mens. Maybe then the women prisoners might get the money spent then on things like san pro which they probably worry about a bit more whether or not they can wear a dress the budget shouldn't be wasted on people who have no business being there and needing desperate accommodation

Ideally we just put less people in prison full stop (unless violent).

I take your point though about focusing our attention on better treatment for trans women rather than integration with other women. It's a good one.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/06/nearly-65-of-prisoners-at-womens-jail-show-signs-of-brain-injury.

Highlighting the fact that the majority of female prisoners are victims of male violence.

the majority of female prisoners are victims of male violence

and then the state moved violent, sexually predatory men in with them

the people who countenanced this should be fucking ashamed of themselves. i don't know how they bloody well sleep at night

What is san pro?

What is san pro?

I rest my case

fifth columnist

Milday is Julie Bindel and I claim my £5