We are now non trans women.....

[InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud]

According the lovely Mr T

Who knew?

Apparently thinking, feeling, acting and dressing like a woman means you have to make every thread about you.

So now we know.

If TWAW and women are non trans women, then the slogan to chant becomes transwomen are non trans women

Genius

If TWAW and women are non trans women, then the slogan to chant becomes transwomen are non trans women

It’s getting like that old skit - ‘who’s on first, etc’

Coming soon to a music store near you......

1. Pretty (non trans) Woman - Roy Orbison
2. You Make me Feel like a natural (non trans) Woman
3. She's Always a (non trans) Woman - Billy Joel
4. More than a (non trans) Woman - the BeeGees
5. Man! I Feel like a (non trans) Woman -Shania Twain
6. No (non trans) Woman No Cry - Bob Marley
7. When a Man Loves a (non trans) Woman - Percy Sledge
8. L.A (non trans) Woman - The Doors
9. Girl, You'll Be a (non tans) Woman Soon - Neil Diamond

10. (non trans) W.O.M.A.N - Etta James

(With apologies to the John Lennon Estate)

“Person, I can hardly express, My mixed emotion at my thoughtlessness, After all I'm forever in your debt, And person, I will try to express, My inner feelings and thankfulness, For showing me the meaning of success, Ooh, well, well, Ooh, well, well, person, I know you understand The little person inside the other non birthing person...”

Beautiful, just beautiful...

A lot of incels and MRA types see women as privileged, because they perceive them as gatekeepers to the sex that they are unable to get.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that it might just be their rank misogyny that is a turnoff. Or maybe, to them, it's worth it. It's worth going without, in order to fuel their bitterness and resentment and hate women. Perhaps the effort required to stuff down their anger, is too hard.

There are lots of transwomen from David thingy in the Telegraph, to celebrity transwomen on Twitter, who are told repeatedly that their version of womanhood is largely a male fantasy, but they don't care.

It's simply not acceptable, nor convenient, for women to ruin it all.

A lot of incels and MRA types see women as privileged, because they perceive them as gatekeepers to the sex that they are unable to get.

100% accurate.

There are lots of transwomen from David thingy in the Telegraph, to celebrity transwomen on Twitter, who are told repeatedly that their version of womanhood is largely a male fantasy, but they don't care.

YY, and seeing the response to women explaining this as being like "talking to a brick wall" says it all. It was never about discussion, we were just here to be talked to and told how wrong we are.

There are lots of transwomen from David thingy in the Telegraph, to celebrity transwomen on Twitter, who are told repeatedly that their version of womanhood is largely a male fantasy, but they don't care.

Problem is that the TW version of the male fantasy doesn't actually work on the males TW want it too. Even those men shouting TWAW at everyone don't accept TWAW when the chips are down, they don't see them as potential partners.

@MiladyRenata where art thou?

Have you read any of the amazing posts that women have written?

It's just fascinating to me that someone who claims to be a trans woman actually hates women. Why would you want 'to be' a woman?

The amount of trans women who dress like porn stars and call themselves porn names and think they have to have big boobs, blonde hair and red lipstick. It is a fetish pure and simple.

The few who actually transition often understand that they are transwomen and not women and that we need our own safe spaces.

Why can't the TRA even try to emphasise with women? Oh I know they hate us that's why. Because we are so privileged

The other thing you've got to realise is that to a lot of MRA/incel types (and overlapping categories of a certain type of male person) we're not actually women.

"Woman" is their name for the subset of women they'd like to shag/imagine themselves as.

The rest of us are a curious form of slightly irritating background noise, emanating from somewhere, they're not quite sure where, because to them we are literally invisible. (Though they may have occasion to notice when the clean underpants stop appearing as if by magic in their drawers).

I often see the phrase "we are not your support humans" on here and Twitter - but that doesn't capture the MRA/incel mindset properly because to them we are domestic appliances, and what's more, built in domestic appliances such that they don't even see us.

Until that strange word "NO" emerges as if by magic, disembodied from the ether.

Then they have a narc meltdown.

Careful Peanut, you need to be more inclusive in your language there.

I’m sure when Renata returns we’ll find out what the appropriate term for them is- non cervix haver? Prostate haver? Sperm Producer? Former Sperm Producer?
After all as these seem to be the next thing after correct pronouns we may as well be on it, just like Tatch and Tampax et al.
I’m so glad I’ve educated myself.

I’m trying to get my poor head around a news story I saw last week where a young man who had gone for extreme plastic surgery to look like - well a Barbie doll actually (I was mesmerised by the face so didn’t see if he had the boob job) - and then complained that women didn’t want to date him. As ever, he was perfectly good looking before all that.

He did not look well after spending all that money either.

non cervix haver? Prostate haver? Sperm Producer? Former Sperm Producer?

I must be feeling generous.

I would be prepared to grant them a deliciously female word.

Tit.

My point is if we are now referring to transmen as cervix havers, people who bleed, etc so as to not offend them (?) why are we not extending the courtesy to transwomen?

@Deliriumoftheendless

My point is if we are now referring to transmen as cervix havers, people who bleed, etc so as to not offend them (?) why are we not extending the courtesy to transwomen?

Fair point

news story I saw last week where a young man who had gone for extreme plastic surgery to look like - well a Barbie doll ...) - and then complained that women didn’t want to date him.

That is an awful story, I always think people who do extreme surgery actually need mental health care. That sort of answers my question - did he think women generally want to date Barbies?

Not sure - he seemed surprised and rather put out hat he drove both sexes away screaming. The surgeon hadn’t done a good job. I always wonder who is paying for all these exterme surgeries.

@Deliriumoftheendless

My point is if we are now referring to transmen as cervix havers, people who bleed, etc so as to not offend them (?) why are we not extending the courtesy to transwomen?

Because the aim isn't not to offend, but to remove sex as a legal category from all laws, policies and practice worldwide. As women need sex-based rights far more than men, with men having little to lose if sex is erased as a legal concept, it's enough to erase women as a biological and political class. Plus, coming for men risks men taking notice. Not a winning strategy since men are generally far less inclined to adjust their behaviour against their own self-interest in order to just be kind.

Not a winning strategy since men are generally far less inclined to adjust their behaviour against their own self-interest in order to just be kind.

YY, your posts are spot on Charlie. It risks exposure. Men hold the power. Hack them off and you generate negative attention. However, even before you get to the stage of amplifying it publicly any suggestion of changing 'man', or 'men' is likely to be dismissed internally as ridiculous. Change the words men have to describe themselves? Have you lost it?! The customer will never go for it. You simply couldn't do that with mainstream male products or health concerns, men would tell you to eff off. Gillette amazingly tried something different (NB they didn’t change the word man or men in the campaign), and their target market pilloried them for it https://www.marketingweek.com/gillette-brand-takes-hit-as-metoo-ad-backfires/ . With women you can get away with the stealth approach (a la Dentons) of robbing them of their rights without there being anywhere near as much fuss and certainly getting far further down the line before there is any. Partly because women have been socialised to be kind, as you point out, and also because in the early stages of introducing these ideas to institutions and companies the people in positions of power who are listening are likely to be men. Men who don't have the ability to empathise with women about how they’d feel if the words to describe themselves are taken away. If they do stop to ask what would a woman think of this, they're likely to be working with women who feel they MUST be kind, or who are scared to speak out for fear of losing their jobs. In addition ALL of them might well just have their eyes on the cultural capital of Stonewall accreditation. We have been well and truly fucked over in all of this.

Exactly, Charlie and it becomes very clear when we change the words for transwomen that it is actually unacceptable to use such dehumanising language for anyone.

Will anyone who is supportive of the terms being trotted out for women defend these terms for transwomen? Will they say “I don’t mind being referred to as a sperm producer” or “it’s just to include transwomen who don’t want to be called men but still have erectile dysfunction.”

No the will not. Apparently what is sauce for the egg laying farmyard bird is not sauce for the non-egg laying farmyard bird.

@Escapeplanning

Unfortunately the feminist organisations that do "support" are actually "prioritising". They can't support any pro female legislation, opportunities, and even basic communication that doesn't also include males, thereby making male participation a fundamental goal of their activities. These orgs become engulfed in conflict for women who don't want to prioritise males or be forced to take part in role playing with them, ie what you would call "support".

This is what I have seen, a lot. It has become impossible to address anything based on sex, including sexism, because the words we need to talk about those things have been re-purposed. And pointing that out gets you kicked out.