We are now non trans women.....

[InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud]

According the lovely Mr T

In my mind I am still a child - pain free and with the energy of a gazelle.

Sadly ‘mind over matter’ is a crock.

I’m sorry I posted on the trans widows forum. I was upset about misgendering

I can't actually put into words how much this sentence disgusts me. You don't give a damn about anyone's feelings but your own. Earlier in the thread I thought that you had had the good grace to try to enter into a discussion and I even felt sympathy for you. And it was the first time ever, in years of reading about this stuff, that I had felt sympathy. Now I feel like a fool for trying to engage with you because this sentence spells out loudly and clearly that you were happily sitting typing your response fully in the knowledge that you were being manipulative and looking for sympathy when actually you feel no compulsion to extend any kind of sympathy in return.

You can try to fool yourself all you want, but you sure as hell don't think like me, or like any other woman I know, and you don't act like us either.

How bloody dare you.

MiladyRenata by their actions on the Trans Widows thread has just proved what we are all saying and have been saying on this board. Enforced speech, compelling women to centre men and their feelings, wishes and wants all the time to the detriment of themselves. No places where women can be amongst only their own sex without the controlling hand, mind or presence of a man dictating how they should behave and what they are permitted to say and how they must say it.

After that little display from MildayRenata anyone who cannot see or accept that this whole ideology is nothing more than a misogynistic MRA agenda designed to control and subdue women needs their head testing.

@MiladyRenata what business did you have going on to that thread in the first place? Why do you think the women on there should give any consideration for your feelings? Who the hell do you think you are bullying and forcing women to speak about anything at all in the manner in which you decree? You don't get to control how I or anyone else speaks whether about you or not.

I believe a person's mind matters more than their body in determining what kind of person they are allowed to be.

This sentence absolutely reeks of privilege.

Women have been oppressed and their lives shaped for millenia by the lived experience of their biologically female bodies. And then people like this come along and are all like 'come on now ladies, it's all about how we feel on the inside that matters'.

@KnightsofColumbusThatHurt

I believe a person's mind matters more than their body in determining what kind of person they are allowed to be.

This sentence absolutely reeks of privilege.

Women have been oppressed and their lives shaped for millenia by the lived experience of their biologically female bodies. And then people like this come along and are all like 'come on now ladies, it's all about how we feel on the inside that matters'.

Yes!!!

@KnightsofColumbusThatHurt

I believe a person's mind matters more than their body in determining what kind of person they are allowed to be.

This sentence absolutely reeks of privilege.

Women have been oppressed and their lives shaped for millenia by the lived experience of their biologically female bodies. And then people like this come along and are all like 'come on now ladies, it's all about how we feel on the inside that matters'.

This is SO well put!

It's the same as the "I feel sorry for people who see colour, I just see people" as if it's a gotcha moment or sign of kindness. It's just the privilege of someone who hasn't had to fight against the difference / societal oppression / unfairness they are discussing.

If you honestly, genuinely think that women are being "oppressed" then maybe there is no frame of reference for a rational conversation. It's the opposite to how I see things.

No. Shit.

@MiladyRenata

Just to be clear...

Do you honestly, genuinely not think women are oppressed?

Is that what you're actually saying?

To women?

Please do just stop digging and go away. You are a crushing bore.

I think I'm talking to a brick wall here.

Really? After all those thoughtful responses you were given to your experiences that made you think you were a woman?

You have zero empathy for actual women and I am regretting taking the time to respond to you seriously. If I had known what you did earlier this week on the transwidows thread I wouldn't have bothered.

I think coming back and saying something that you know is going to be hotly disputed in order to distract from an arse handing, is a common tactic.

Knowing what Milady did on the transwidows thread is why I haven't joined in the discussion about Miladys post.

Oh and @MiladyRenata it's so incredibly disappointing that many women have shared their person experiences and observations on this thread tagging you and your takeaway is that if they believe women are oppressed, you refuse to have a 'rational' conversation with them.

So women have said that xyz happens to them and makes them feel a certain way. And your response is to say I don't believe that xyz happens to you so you feeling a certain way is invalid in my opinion.

Therefore all of the women who challenged your views are (in your opinion) not oppressed, are irrational and you therefore refuse to engage with them.

Thereby oppressing their right to be believed, listened to and treated with respect and an open mind.

Solid work.

At least this thread can't really be derailed, it's about non trans non women and non trans men not understanding what it is to be a woman. Or something like that.

@MiladyRenata

I think I'm talking to a brick wall here.

If you honestly, genuinely think that women are being "oppressed" then maybe there is no frame of reference for a rational conversation. It's the opposite to how I see things.

Which is a pity, but it is what it is.

Of course it the opposite of how you see things, your behaviour on the Trans Widows thread shows exactly what you think and see.

You won't see the oppression for two reasons, the first being that you are part of those doing it and the second that you don't want to see it or believe it because of reason one.

You are doing a grand job of exposing what is at heart of this ideology so do please carry on.

@MiladyRenata is it your understanding that men are oppressed by women? In what ways does this occur?

“Of course it the opposite of how you see things, your behaviour on the Trans Widows thread shows exactly what you think and see.”

So true, RedDogs.

I've followed this thread but so far have been disinclined to comment. Until I saw this statement:

If you honestly, genuinely think that women are being "oppressed" then maybe there is no frame of reference for a rational conversation.

Ah yes, that old chestnut. If you don't agree with me, you are irrational.

Oddly enough women have been hearing this same argument since time immemorial. Label someone irrational (or hysterical) then you immediately invalidate their voices and ensure society takes them less seriously. In years gone by women were relegated to asylums on this basis, should their husbands decide they wanted rid of them by a convenient means. Or, failing that, they were sent to convents.

The measured, substantiated disagreements on this thread are anything but irrational. I'm afraid you've just shown your hand. And empathetic with women, it ain't.

It's the opposite to how I see things.

Very obviously. Now ask yourself why.

@Butterer

Reading it another way, the poster doesn't see how their trying to control how women describe their experiences is oppression/that trans widows are and were not being oppressed by them or anyone else. Fuck that.

Whilst endeavouring to do exactly that.

If you honestly, genuinely think that women are being "oppressed" then maybe there is no frame of reference for a rational conversation. It's the opposite to how I see things.

Somebody is living in the fucking upside down, people. Gast fully flabbered.

If you honestly, genuinely think that women are being "oppressed" then maybe there is no frame of reference for a rational conversation.

Speechless.