Accessible Toilets

[WarOnWomen]

I've just seen this thread by Fair Play for Women regarding their stance on toilets. Maya F is also on the thread clarifying the issue.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312062467191734273?s=21

They are saying that everyone should be comfortable choosing the toilets they want to without being forced to share with opposite sex. Yup. Trans people should also not have to share with people designated at birth. Yup, also agree. Have a mix sex category for people who don't mind and trans people. Sure.

They are saying these facilities already exist. Accessible toilets. This is where I feel lost and let down. These toilets are for disabled people. People worked hard to get these accessible toilets. I don't want my mum having to share these toilets with trans women, anymore than I want them in female spaces. It's just wrong. And don't disabled people have a say as part of the EA2010?

Please tell me I have the wrong end of the stick.

@Juniperandrage

but all accessible toilets should have baby changing facilities in them anyway

Yes they should - and specifically ones that are height adjustable so they can be used by parents in wheelchairs.

*but all accessible toilets should have baby changing facilities in them anyway

Why?*

because some parents are disabled and my poor child shouldn't have to sit in a dirty nappy because I can't get my wheelchair into the ladies

@merrymouse

but all accessible toilets should have baby changing facilities in them anyway

Why?

The need to change a nappy isn't the same as the need to use a toilet, and if it's assumed that parents of small children should automatically be able to use accessible toilets, the number of available toilets is greatly reduced.

If someone is unable to use the regular toilets due to a disability, where do you expect them to change their baby? Or should they just go home?

Yes they should - and specifically ones that are height adjustable so they can be used by parents in wheelchairs.

Yes agree - but for people who need accessible toilets, not for everyone.

Christ on a bike, the number of people who think disabled parents don't exist astonishes me

If someone is unable to use the regular toilets due to a disability, where do you expect them to change their baby? Or should they just go home?

As per my previous post, some people who need accessible toilets need baby changing facilities. That does not mean that everyone who needs to change a baby should have access to those facilities.

Since you are reading the thread, could you answer my question about what you mean by 'trans'?

Christ on a bike, the number of people who think disabled parents don't exist astonishes me

Obviously disabled parents exist. This thread is about people who think accessible toilets should be available to anyone who wants to change a nappy.

I apologise if I misunderstood what you meant in your post.

They basically want everyone else to shove out the way so they feel safe. Not cool.not acceptable.

Trans is not a disability. Non-binary is not a disability. Men with children is not a disability. Having a buggy is NOT A DISABILITY. See a pattern there?

Yep I see a pattern, all those people require facilities to suit their circumstances when away from home.

Completely agree with you OP.

I am outraged that somebody would try to give away the facilities of people who literally physically CANNOT access the standard public faciltities.

I disagree about third spaces for trans people anyway. There are toilets for male people and for female people. That covers everybody. Anybody who can't cope within that provision needs to either seek mental health help or campaign e.g. for men to be more accepting of other males who present differently.

It is not the job of women or people with disabilities to accommodate them.

I think it's very concerning that FPFW seem to be announcing policies without consulting groups who may be detrimentally affected by said policies.

The Shoea

"This seems off key from FPFW - unless they are (not very clearly) trying to make the point that it is not on to give away rights that are not yours to offer."

They've done more tweets and no, they seem to be serious or, at least, acting seriously.

I actually think accessible toilets are reasonable for trans people to use - well definitely those with gender dysphoria, less so cross dressers. If you are so dysphoric then you are ‘disabled’ from using the toilet of your sex. If you get turned on by being around women and dressing as a woman then stay in the men’s.

If we could rewind time a couple of decades, I might be okay with this, because the number of people with crippling and intractable dysphoria was very very low.

We're not looking at five thousand people with a disabling mental health condition spread out across the entire country any more though. You don't even need dysphoria to be classed as trans these days; all you have to do is say the words.

Half a million completely non-disabled new users of the disabled loos overnight, though? When they're already usually occupied by someone who doesn't actually need them? Not a chance in hell would I back this.

Accessible facilities for people with disabilities need ringfencing and protecting, not opening up to anyone who doesn't fancy sharing with other men.

WarOnWomen

I'm not on twitter so haven't been following, but if they are serious, the hypocrisy is breathtaking

And today they're still campaigning against selfish pricks like you who think anyone who fancies doing so should use facilities meant for disabled people.

Woah, that's uncalled for. People with disabilities can be selfish too Jan as you are proving.

I didn't say anyone that fancies but yes people that need that provision for reasons other than disability. Most loo's are not classed as 'disabled' they are classed as accessible and there are numerous reasons why somebody would need accessible facilities.

You're welcome to think that, but nobody has the right to give away the rights and provisions of a disadvantaged group, whether they're part of it or not.

But are they not part of this group? I am talking old school transexuals with gender dysphoria. To me it is clearly a mental health condition and a debilitating one at that. Life long mental health conditions that impact on your day to day life are disabilities.

@Aesopfable

You're welcome to think that, but nobody has the right to give away the rights and provisions of a disadvantaged group, whether they're part of it or not.

But are they not part of this group? I am talking old school transexuals with gender dysphoria. To me it is clearly a mental health condition and a debilitating one at that. Life long mental health conditions that impact on your day to day life are disabilities.

How is that different from old school transsexuals accessing women's toilets? Crucially, how would you know that they were old fashioned transexuals? if old school transsexuals don't feel they have a disability and want to go into the women's?

Why does everyone care so much about where other people go to the toilet? This thread is crazy, never realised people were so judgemental!

I agree that the only baby change facilities shouldn’t be located in the accessible toilet - purely because it takes ages to change a baby and it’s inconvenient for others but if they are, you can’t judge parents for using them!

Plus if there isn’t a family sized toilet, where do expect people with prams to use the loo? You can’t just leave a newborn baby in a pram outside...

Because it's about protected rights.