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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another one for Irish Feminists - this person holds a GRC and might soon be held in Dochas prison with women and childrem

437 replies

XXSex · 25/09/2020 12:05

This is a harrowing read.
I feel immensely sorry for the child that was. However I feel more frightened for the women and children G might be incarcerated with.

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Custardcream1244 · 25/09/2020 23:44

Did any political party oppose the GRA Bill.

ItsaPeppaPink · 26/09/2020 00:04

@Custardcream1244

Did any political party oppose the GRA Bill.
Nope, not a single one..... So terrified of being labelled anti-something or other they said yes to everything without reading the fine print....
HeirloomTomato · 26/09/2020 06:06

There should be a law that someone's real sex is stated in criminal cases.

Agreed. The behavior described in that terrifying article is just not seen in females. The level of aggression and desire to hurt and violate others, especially to violate women, is almost unheard of in female criminal psychology. Leaving out the birth sex of the person is lying to the public and we can all see through it. Why maintain this ridiculous lie to help criminals in their goals of accessing vulnerable women and girls to abuse them?

NiceGerbil · 26/09/2020 06:30

Previous thread on this got zapped.

Just FYI.

Seems misgendering is a worse thing than a homicidal manic (shorthand- which surely is fair given the police in the whole of Ireland were warned) being out and an about and described in a way that is totally misleading.

Look out for a girl!

Yeah that's really helpful.

I'm glad the Garda found a reason to nick this person and pray they have enough to keep them away from the public.

I have no fucking idea why they were bailed in the first place FFS.

Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 07:34

So we have a situation where anyone can declare themselves a woman in Ireland. No medical diagnosis, no Garda vetting (not that that would have been sufficient in this case). No hormonal therapy, no surgery required. All they need is to 'feel' like a woman (or if you are a sexual predictor, spot an opportunity).
There was no risk impact done prior to the legislation being brought in.

We had the word woman removed from the cervical screening programme, despite all the well documented problems with the service.. This seems to have been done with the sole purpose of not wanting to upset trans women, with no concern given to the risk it created for marginalised women with poor literacy skills or women with English as a second language.

There is a transwoman, who has not taken any hormone treatment who is a convicted sex offender housed in a woman's prison.

We have a homicidal teenager who has already attacked women, who has openly stated the intent to kill and rape women. Yet, the courts were willing to put the lives of women at risk rather than misgendering the teenager.

Women's rights groups remain silent, as they now represent trans women too. So they have a conflict of interests.
No political party has a problem with this.
The trans lobby provide educational materials for schools.
There are plans to expand Self ID in the programme for government.
But if this government fails the next government also has no problems with it all. In fact they are patting themselves on the back for how 'progressive' they are.

So basically, Irish women are screwed.
Have I got that right?

Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 07:52

I am not sure why the other thread was pulled. This is being openly discussed on boards.ie.

RomeoLikedCapuletGirls · 26/09/2020 07:54

Awful. Just awful.

Sexnotgender · 26/09/2020 08:41

The newspaper link clearly states they are male but identify as female. I assume that’s a recent addition.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/09/2020 08:50

But... this never happens!

ColleagueFromMars · 26/09/2020 08:53

Well this is the stuff of a horror film being allowed to unfold in front of us...

From the perspective of the general population, this person's biological sex matters very little in my view. They are very clearly a real, immediate and severe threat to any women they come into contact with.

From the perspective of female prisoners, it's vital and terrifying news. If ever there was a crystal clear case this this person should not be held in a female detention facility...

Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 09:00

@ColleagueFromMars

Well this is the stuff of a horror film being allowed to unfold in front of us...

From the perspective of the general population, this person's biological sex matters very little in my view. They are very clearly a real, immediate and severe threat to any women they come into contact with.

From the perspective of female prisoners, it's vital and terrifying news. If ever there was a crystal clear case this this person should not be held in a female detention facility...

I think in the last link on the deleted thread, the judge was not automatically making the decision to use the women's prison. But I don't know if there are powers there to revoke the GRA certificate. If the GRA certificate is valid I don't know if there is anything the judge can do.
Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 09:03

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

StephanieRang · 26/09/2020 09:23

Thanks for the link to that document Cailleach. What's frightening is how hushed up this was. It wasn't made public and womens concerns were dismissed. I had a feeling it would take an "incident" to make this more public. I feel like firing off a few emails to my local politicians on this, just expressing general concerns around the HSE thing, gender in our equality act instead of sex, this case /prisons etc. I'd say it wasn't even on the radar for most of them.

Teni have "education in schools" in their 3 year plan, I don't know the details, but in light of the English dept of education announcement this week, I hope the Irish government will take note.

bellinisurge · 26/09/2020 09:25

I did wonder when I read the story whether it was a male. Horrifying.

Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 10:08

Reading that link provided by Cailleach, there is only a passing mention of the concerns of "ciswomen". It is mentioned under "other issues " and after that appears to be completely ignored (or did I miss it).
Equally the concerns around shared spaces are only focused on how to make them easier to access.
I also noticed that initially a married person could not get a GRA certificate. But that was amended. Was there any consideration given to the impact on the spouse?
This whole "review"was done with blinkered vision.

Clymene · 26/09/2020 10:12

The other thread got deleted? Shock

Custardcream1244 · 26/09/2020 10:27

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/02/25/from-medical-assessment-to-affirmation-legal-gender-self-declaration-in-ireland/

This article gives an interesting perspective on the review.
Apparently, the concerns raised around shared spaces that were dismissed the link provided by Cailleach, were raised by the Girl Guides.. Their concerns would appear to have come under safeguarding guidelines. Yet, there didn't appear to be any consideration given to these concerns.
It alll makes for chilling reading.

StephanieRang · 26/09/2020 11:35

@Custardcream1244

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/02/25/from-medical-assessment-to-affirmation-legal-gender-self-declaration-in-ireland/

This article gives an interesting perspective on the review.
Apparently, the concerns raised around shared spaces that were dismissed the link provided by Cailleach, were raised by the Girl Guides.. Their concerns would appear to have come under safeguarding guidelines. Yet, there didn't appear to be any consideration given to these concerns.
It alll makes for chilling reading.

Omg custardcream, that is a fantastic summary. Everyone should read this.

I couldn't believe this section :

Once a Gender Recognition Certificate is issued a person’s gender “becomes for all purposes the preferred gender from that day forward. Accordingly, if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.” Applicants can also have the GRC issued in a different name to that on their original birth certificate.

To me it all boils down to the fact that I don't believe that you can change sex. It's as simple as that. How are all these politicians agreeing with this? Ordinary people have no idea.

notyourhandmaid · 26/09/2020 12:09

Sweeping it in with marriage equality (which, while extremely welcome, was painfully scrutinised by the media) and legislation ensuring that a school's 'ethos' couldn't be used to justify firing teachers for their sexual orientation - it seemed like it had to be a good thing. And in the context of that very ugly 'debate' on marriage equality, who wanted to start crticising another vulnerable group getting something? Who had the energy?

(And even if you had the energy, it was going towards Repeal.)

And we're told, it's been five years, it's all grand. Except it's not. Except there's media silence over male-bodied offenders being a threat to women in and out of prison. Or accounts of women living in Ireland being abused by their trans-identified partners. Crickets.

Like a good little liberal feminist I used to find Glinner's commentary on all this - the Irish state still in service to men in frocks - in bad taste. But nothing is in as bad taste as this absolute callousness towards women in the name of 'progress'.

doublehalo · 26/09/2020 12:16

This reply has been deleted

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Gingernaut · 26/09/2020 12:24

So 'Barbie Kardashian' wants to carry on attempting to rape and murder women and wants the state to facilitate this by remanding 'her' to a woman only facility?

Gingernaut · 26/09/2020 12:26

Sorry. posted too soon.

Why are 'Barbie's' demands being treated seriously?

Surely, 'Barbie' must be remanded at a place most suitable for 'her' and not where she needs to be held?

'She'll' only attack female staff and doesn't want to ge where there are men.

Find MtF staff to look after 'her'. Big ones.

StephanieRang · 26/09/2020 12:53

This is excellent and a good summary of the whole situation :

twitter.com/stellaomalley3/status/1309788076059832320?s=19

Thread.
People of Ireland, it is time to stand up and be counted! Barbie Kardashian has stated that she plans to rape and murder people. She is “very anxious she be detained in a prison facility for females as she identifies as a female.”

StephanieRang · 26/09/2020 12:54

The above, for those not on twitter

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1309788076059832320.html

Gingernaut · 26/09/2020 13:24

Um. Meet 'Barbie Kardashian'.

Why the Irish legal system is humouring 'her' is beyond me.

Another one for Irish Feminists - this person holds a GRC and might soon be held in Dochas prison with women and childrem
Another one for Irish Feminists - this person holds a GRC and might soon be held in Dochas prison with women and childrem
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