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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunburying into Autumn (Bunbury 6)

999 replies

DianasLasso · 09/09/2020 13:08

Bit like blackberrying, with added derailment, sealioning and general JAQ-ing off. I'll copy and paste the opening post of the last thread.

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches gin

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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 14/09/2020 15:33

Voldemort.

Bunburying into Autumn (Bunbury 6)
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Thedisco2000 · 14/09/2020 15:41

Oh I see. It's part of the FWR rules.
Will you consider deleting posts that associate transgender people with autogynephila (AGP)?
This is something we'd look at on a case by case basis, though we'll definitely delete posts which generalise.

That thread didn't say that everyone who identify as trans women have AGP though did it? It seems so random.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 15:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2020 15:51

Diana Thanks I'd have to spend as little time as possible in that person's company, either virtually or in person.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 15:52

Oh, and the Paralympics thread has gone too. So - 46 year old sprinter (because that is of course the age at which all sprinters reach their physical peak... oh hang on a minute, no it's not, that would be mid twenties) with times IIRC 10 to 15% faster than their nearest rival. But we're not allowed to talk about it. Apparently not in the spirit of civil debate.

Not sure what's civil about biologically male individuals taking over women's sports, but there you go.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 15:54

Thanks Erish. (That is pretty much what I'm doing... might have to unsubscribe from the discussion group temporarily.)

Give me sloe gin recipes and cake recipes to talk me down please, people.

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ChattyLion · 14/09/2020 16:05

I’ll have a sloe gin or a blackberry vodka please. That was a really very useful thread, and it just wasn’t offensive.
MN posters must link to stuff that isn’t in Talk Guidelines quite often, surely? Obviously MN don’t have time, and can’t be expected to follow links to see what’s in and what’s out of Talk Guidelines within the content of a third party website- so why can’t they just dismiss those complaints as outside of MN jurisdiction? It wasn’t as if it was a spam link which should be removed. Just an external link to a discussion- which nobody is forced to click on.
I’d find it helpful if MN made a sticky to explain how they respond to the Eyes when MNHQ get reports about FWR threads.

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EdgeOfACoin · 14/09/2020 16:06

Lurkers read. Lurkers see what is taken down. Lurkers draw their own conclusions.

It was while I was lurking on these boards that I found out about the thing that doesn't exist. Then suddenly a lot of pieces fell into place very quickly. Unfortunately for our monitors, I now believe in the thing that doesn't exist.

But there's an awful lot of effort to make sure others don't find out about it.

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ArabellaScott · 14/09/2020 16:06

I am wondering if a letter to MNHQ to ask for a list of banned topics would be of use?

I don't want to lose the ability to discuss women's rights here. I feel like I have no idea what things are being deleted for these days. A list would be really useful.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2020 16:07

This is my favourite cake:

You make a basic Victoria sponge in two cake pans.

Instead of jam and cream, sandwich it together with lemon curd mixed with whipped cream to your taste, and fresh raspberries. Make a water icing with lemon juice in place of water and icing sugar, then drizzle that over the top. Decorate with more fresh raspberries.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 16:08

Lemon curd and fresh raspberries does sound like an excellent combination, Eresh.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2020 16:11

I love lemon and raspberries together, but you could vary with different fruit curd and fresh fruit and juice for other combinations.

The Bewilderness used to have a recipe for fruit curd that she would post in recipe discussions!

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MichelleofzeResistance · 14/09/2020 16:38

A list would be really useful.

It would. I discovered the phrase 'alphabet soup' has suddenly become not only deleteworthy but strikeworthy the other day. That came out of the blue. Had I any idea that was now regarded as an unacceptable phrase obviously I wouldn't have used it.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 17:00

@MichelleofzeResistance

A list would be really useful.

It would. I discovered the phrase 'alphabet soup' has suddenly become not only deleteworthy but strikeworthy the other day. That came out of the blue. Had I any idea that was now regarded as an unacceptable phrase obviously I wouldn't have used it.

Mind boggling.
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DeaconBoo · 14/09/2020 17:01

edited by MNHQ as quotes withdrawn post

Insisting everyone has a gender identity is excluding agender and gender-free people.
Can they provide instructions on how to find out one's gender identity?

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ArabellaScott · 14/09/2020 17:07

I like cream with fresh orange segments as a filling. And clarity when it comes to rules.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 17:17

Dark chocolate and orange is always a good combo in my books.

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ErrolTheDragon · 14/09/2020 17:27

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman

Voldemort.

Fuck. (Note: I very rarely swear in print).
Posters were, when I last saw it, being very careful to not break talk guidelines. I hope people took my hint to bookmark the link. I didn't think the link itself broke the guidelines, without going back to read it I thought it was only referring to a subset, not generalising?
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ErrolTheDragon · 14/09/2020 17:31

@DianasLasso

Oh, and the Paralympics thread has gone too. So - 46 year old sprinter (because that is of course the age at which all sprinters reach their physical peak... oh hang on a minute, no it's not, that would be mid twenties) with times IIRC 10 to 15% faster than their nearest rival. But we're not allowed to talk about it. Apparently not in the spirit of civil debate.

Not sure what's civil about biologically male individuals taking over women's sports, but there you go.

It's hard for everyone to maintain 'civil debate' about matters of gross unfairness to women. PARD (polite and reasonable discourse) is usually admirable but sometimes there is a need to be allowed to forcefully express extreme indignation.
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AlbusSirius · 14/09/2020 19:02

The trouble is, in a 500 post thread of FWR posters being all PARD-like, one or two posters who either are don't know the rules or (more likely) know very well how to break the rules, can have any thread deleted simply by chucking a couple of horrified truthful opinions.

Most FWR deleted threads now have "there are several posts on this thread that break our talk guidelines". Obviously pretty much every AIBU thread has several (at least) posts that break guidelines, but they are subject to the special rules Hmm

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AlbusSirius · 14/09/2020 19:02

My mum used to make an orange and almond puddingy-cakey-thing that was delicious. I can't find any sort of recipe that is similar, and when asked she denied she'd ever made anything of the sort Confused.

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Kit19 · 14/09/2020 19:27

I see the bat signal has gone out from the monitors

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JellyFishSquish · 14/09/2020 19:54

...another resurrection of old discussion to tell us how we should just get over it.

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DianasLasso · 14/09/2020 19:55

Yup, I fear it's going to be invasion of the body snatchers ploppers tonight.

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MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 14/09/2020 20:06

ErrolTheDragon it was a good hint, thank you Thanks

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