Caster Semenya has lost appeal

[Mumsnut]

Hard on Semenya, but the right outcome overall I think

Caster, not Castor. I think that was autocorrect

She has internal testes making testosterone at a level biological females cannot produce so only fair on the majority of females who cannot produce such high levels of testosterone. I do think it would be better if the athletics body changed the categories of male and female to testosterone below X amount and testosterone above X amount. That way less ambiguous and more clear cut. It is not Semenya's fault she produces high levels of testosterone.

I feel bloody sorry for her. But I think it's the right decision.

She has he opportunity to take part, if she takes medication to suppress the testosterone, which is obviously much higher than found in a female , and gives her a very big advantage, she refuses to do this, so in my opinion it’s her choice not to take part

I do feel bad for her, but its simply unfair on other women if she is allowed to continue with such an obvious biological advantage.

I do think it would be better if the athletics body changed the categories of male and female to testosterone below X amount and testosterone above X amount.

Its not just about testosterone though? People who have gone through male puberty, even if testosterone is lowered to a 'female level' will still have an advantage over women.

Its a difficult conversation for sure, however it should be about people like Caster, rather than about the likes of Laurel Hubbard, IMO.

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.

Caster should not be allowed to compete.

However, it is beyond ridiculous that if Caster declared themself to be a trans woman, that they would suddenly be allowed to compete.

Is this decision definitely about biology, and biologically-based advantages?

Pardon me, I just found a newspaper article which I hope is correct that references an XY variant.

Semenya has known this for years

Oh, I thought it had all only been realised after questions were raised quite recently. When it all started up in the press I did feel very sorry for her, and to have her DSD dragged out in the press.

I don't agree with caringcarer. The categories are women and men, not low and high testosterone levels and they should remain that way.

It is unfortunate for Caster Semenya that she lives in a country where intersex conditions are not diagnosed at birth. If her (I'm using the pronouns I think she likes out of courtesy) condition had been diagnosed, then she would never have been competing in women's competitions at all.

The physiology of people born with Y chromosomes differs substantially from that of people born without Y chromosomes; only the latter should be allowed to compete in women's categories of sport.

It is tough on a few individuals, but has to be so in order to be fair to many. Just as categories in paralympics, or weight divisions, or age categories are exclusive of some athletes, so must women's categories be exclusive of those who are male.

Semenya has know her XY status since at least 2009 - there is evidence that she was subject to sex testing after she won the world championships that year.

I do feel sorry for her in that she lived and began in sport not knowing of her DSD but this is the right decision as she has a clear advantage over other competitors.

www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/what-no-one-is-telling-you-about-caster-semenya-she-has-xy-chromosomes/

This article is a good description of the entire Caster Semenya controversy.

My personal opinion is that she should not be allowed to compete in the women's category in Tokyo, whether she reduces her testosterone level or not. She is not a woman.

The diagnosis of 46XY and 5 alpha reductase deficiency was made in 2009, around the age of 18-19 or so, so Semenya spent 10 years competing fully in the knowledge of biological male advantage and was happy to win medals and money. It wasn’t like it was revealed after all that, it was before. Why should anyone feel sorry for Semenya? If the correct decision had been made in 2009 then none of the success Semenya achieved would have been allowed, so it worked out well considering. Other women have missed out, though, including Lynsey Sharp who was vilified and missed out on a medal in 2016, despite being correct.

The physiology of people born with Y chromosomes differs substantially from that of people born without Y chromosomes; only the latter should be allowed to compete in women's categories of sport.

Absolutely this. Anything else is nonsense.

Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else.

And having watched interviews with Caster, Caster only calls themself a woman on the track, dismissing girls as 'silly'.

Good. I’m still pissed that I got banned from a feminist fitness page for commenting that I felt really gaslit after spending years defending Semenya against what I believed to be criticisms levied against her for not performing femininity. I am still seriously pissed that the sporting press is STILL not being upfront that Semenya is male. And obviously still pissed that feminist (sporting) spaces are shutting down women’s feelings on male participation in women’s sports.

I thought she was under the impression that she was biologically female since birth and only recently found out she had DSD? If so, I’m inclined to say let her compete as a woman, since that’s what she always believed she was, and what she is, externally at least. If her condition has occurred naturally, then it’s not an “unfair” advantage, any more than being naturally taller than average is. We don’t penalize Michael Phelps for having a condition that makes him a better swimmer, do we? It is not the same as being a transwoman who is biologically male. She is a woman with an unusual condition, that’s all. Or is she?

Having read all your comments I suspect there’s more to it than I previously thought.

@NotBadConsidering

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.

This!

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

6th place was Lynsey Sharp. That’s the bronze medal she was denied.

HarryHarry1 you’ve been led to believe that because of poor reporting in the media. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, found out in 2009, and has internal testes. The testosterone levels are normal for a male, not “unusually high for a female”.

I would also note that I don’t think Semenya should be allowed to compete in any women’s sport, be that the 200m as attempted, or a women’s football team as attempted.

From the ruling, "The Swiss court also said that Semenya’s “guarantee of human dignity” was not undermined in agreeing that an athlete’s biological characteristics may supersede a person’s gender identity to protect fair competition."

Harry, Semenya has a DSD that can only be present in males. Semenya is a male with a DSD, not a female with a DSD.
That’s why I’m so pissed. I’ve been defending her for years believing that she was female. She isn’t, and has no place competing against women.