Caster Semenya has lost appeal

[Mumsnut]

Hard on Semenya, but the right outcome overall I think

What I don't understand is that I thought it was fairly established treatment to remove internal testes because of the risk of cancer.

Yes that’s correct. This hasn’t happened because it would remove their athletic advantage.

So basically, aside from a misshapen penis, people with 5ARD are fully male.

Yes.

But perhaps some recognition for those who 'missed out' would be appropriate.

It happened with Schinegger - snippet from the article I linked above.

In 1988, on a television show broadcast by the Austrian ORF network, Mr Schinegger gave his 1966 gold medal from the World Ski Championship to the second-place finisher, Marielle Goitschel.

I'm not optimistic about ever seeing such grace from Semenya, but am open to being pleasantly surprised.

So basically, aside from a misshapen penis, people with 5ARD are fully male.

Indeed, and as the world-renowned athlete and sports expert Rachel McKinnon helpfully explained to Martina Navratilova - "genitals do not play sports. What part of a penis is related to tennis?"

Sounds like the right decision, and if it's correct that Caster has known for 10 years, and is even now playing for a women's football club, then I think my earlier sympathies were misplaced.

Share token for the times piece which seems rather biased towards caster.

Despite being raised as a girl, the comment above seems correct - caster is a male with a dsd not a female with a dsd.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caster-semenya-to-miss-tokyo-olympics-after-ruling-86hn8t0p7?shareToken=3d9032b99d8de1ccfa9450ab9ea36cdb

@FannyCann

What I don't understand is that I thought it was fairly established treatment to remove internal testes because of the risk of cancer. (Do correct next if I'm wrong, I might be out of date). If Caster had done that then it would have solved the testosterone problem as well as providing health protection for the future.

There is an increased risk of malignancy but it’s not as high as previously thought and testes can be monitored much better for malignant change with MRI these days compared to previously. And once you remove them, it changes everything for a person and they lose the chance to father children.

03:52 Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

This is a very important post from Delphinium

Caster, like many other male athletes competing in female categories, have known for years/all their lives that they are male. So have/do their coaching teams. And their national team leaders.

They've tried to keep that fact away from the public. Or stir up hate towards people who point it out.

They know they are male.

It's the world of PR and Spin.

Let's always adjust the medal rankings and celebrate those women and girls who unfairly get awarded 2nd/3rd....6th, 7th place etc.

@Chloemol

She has he opportunity to take part, if she takes medication to suppress the testosterone, which is obviously much higher than found in a female , and gives her a very big advantage, she refuses to do this, so in my opinion it’s her choice not to take part

Yes, she used her advantage

See also....the current Chinese women's running teams.

American High School/Collegiate teams.

Rugby.

Cycling.

Call it out every time.

Their life - and their wife/kids life’s - must be in a right old turmoil now. It’s taken a long time to get here though, this has been going on for such a long time.

I’m amazed that (some of) twitter has declared it ‘racism’.

It's not racism to point out a black man is a man. A white man is a man. A brown man is a man.

This is incorrect, CAIS is not the condition Semenya has, it's 5ARD.

Thanks, I wasn't sure, all the variations of DSDs are really complicated

all the variations of DSDs are really complicated

Would be far less complicated if there wasn't a concerted drive by so many gender ideology organisations, and apparently collaborating media, to try to confuse the issue.

There are only probably about half a dozen common DSDs, and they can all be explained clearly and mostly accurately in a couple of sentences. (Spoiler - they're not a sex/gender spectrum).

@PurpleHoodie

03:52 Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

This is a very important post from Delphinium

Caster, like many other male athletes competing in female categories, have known for years/all their lives that they are male. So have/do their coaching teams. And their national team leaders.

They've tried to keep that fact away from the public. Or stir up hate towards people who point it out.

They know they are male.

It's the world of PR and Spin.

Let's always adjust the medal rankings and celebrate those women and girls who unfairly get awarded 2nd/3rd....6th, 7th place etc.

My god I had no idea it was so common! Are these trainers deliberately seeking these athletes out or are they just riding to the top due to the advantage their testosterone gives them?

I've just been having a look on twitter and the response is overwhelmingly the view that Caster is biologically female with slightly higher testosterone than other females and this decision is unfair. There is no understanding or acceptance that Caster is biologically male.

*rising

@NotBadConsidering

Caster should not be allowed to compete in the women’s 800m category regardless of suppressing current testosterone levels because of all the other advantages that male biology has brought Caster and continues to provide. Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that only affects males. Semenya has all of the advantages of male puberty, plus an increase in VO2max, a male pelvis to improve running gait, and Semenya has never had to deal with a period, either in training or in competition. Semenya has known this for years, yet has continued to compete in the women’s competitions, winning medals, prize money, sponsorship that might have otherwise gone to someone else. I don’t feel sorry for Semenya, I feel sorry for those women who have missed out.

Me too! 'She' should never have been allowed to compete as a female.

CAIS is probably over represented at the Olympics. A study of the Atlanta games found it was present in 1:1000 athletes in women’s competition. The incidence of CAIS is 1:20,000 in the general population. It likely confers an advantage, probably skeletal, and I personally think it’s enough of an advantage that it needs to be looked at, because the study from Atlanta only gave small numbers.

justanother

Both.

Put simply, the athletes, coaches and team (and national athletics leaders) KNOW these are males competing and females - in the female categories.

There were some links posted on here a while ago to articles and at least one documentary.

....males competing AGAINST females

Doyoumind That’s because Twitter is full of dumb arses. It’s not the place to go for reasonable logical factual conversations.

I too had a great deal of sympathy for CS until I saw an interview and it does appear that CS only identifies as a woman for sport and that males with this disorder are sought to take part in female competition

I think there was a very effective PR spin that encouraged people to feel very sorry for CS and believe CS was a female with a DSD rather than a male. Must have been so frustrating for women athletes who knew what was really going on.

Twitter is full of dunderheads, I wouldn't pay any attention to their nonsense.

@Delphinium20

None of the three medal winners of the women's 800 meter medal winners in Brazil's 2016 Olympics were female. Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui have an intersex conditions. All three have XY chromosomes. I can't speak to whether or not the winners knew they cheated, but they were males in a women's race.

I feel sorry for the three women in 4th, 5th and 6th place.

Delphinium As PP have said, I had no idea how common this is in women's sports. It is shocking and needs to be robustly resisted.

Interesting interviews indeed Thousands.

Comes across as an absolute (insert rude word).

Milly Yes.