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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Funded by the US religious far right...

162 replies

LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 11:07

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 05/09/2020 13:13

its the only cause where he can align himself with the opposite of my position

I think for an awful lot of the TRA crowd, this is the crux of it. It's a way to kick back against the older generation. So, for most, a phase. Smile.

I'd probably just avoid arguing the topic with him, tbh. It's not worth getting into it when its so emotionally charged. Legislation, MPs, etc, are worth arguing with, not teenagers. Just my thoughts!

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:18

Does he think white people can identify as black, and that society should accept them as such?

No because that's just offensive and totally different.

I forget what the 'different' rationale was but it made no sense.

Something to do with - whether someone is black or white is obvious and everyone can see it.

We can't randomly see each others genitals.

We can't see inside someone else's head.

I think it went long those lines.

OP posts:
Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:22

I'd probably just avoid arguing the topic with him, tbh. It's not worth getting into it when its so emotionally charged. Legislation, MPs, etc, are worth arguing with, not teenagers. Just my thoughts!

He's nearly 22. So the teenager ship has long sailed. But it's only really something that comes up when he tries to show me what a bigot I'm being.

But, yeah, you're right. I should probably just say, "that's nice dear..." and let him get on with it!

I think for an awful lot of the TRA crowd, this is the crux of it. It's a way to kick back against the older generation

I agree. I've told him that he and his peers might just want to 'be nice' but that is not the motivation of the middle aged men behind the movement.

OP posts:
Madvixen · 05/09/2020 13:23

OP, I agree with a previous poster that he's taken the US activist position on this issue. Can you signpost him to what happens with the real religious extremists? In Iran it's still punishable, by death, to be gay. But the state will pay for sex reassignment surgery. It may make him think a little

Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 13:27

Two people who I have seen publishing evidence of right wing funding on Twitter are the ever silly mimmymum, and Christine Hart. Both are actually just speculating on the source of one or two anonymous donations. If your son is relying on this substance free smearing then 2 out of ten for gullibility.

Aesopfable · 05/09/2020 13:30

Why does he think the religious far right would fund lesbian women or groups like LGB Alliance?

PronounssheRa · 05/09/2020 13:35

Something to do with - whether someone is black or white is obvious and everyone can see it.

We can't randomly see each others genitals.

I think with that level of argument you're right, the best approach is 'that's nice dear'.

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:38

Why does he think the religious far right would fund lesbian women or groups like LGB Alliance

He claims to have seen 'evidence' of it... but he couldn't find it when he looked. Or it was via a site that required a paid subscription. I suspect he's seen a screenshot of something on T

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 05/09/2020 13:40

He's not trying to debate you, he's just ranting at you without showing you the respect of a) listening to your position, b) believing you're arguing in good faith, c) engaging with your arguments or d) providing any evidence to support his.

The only logical thing to do in this position is disengage, possibly with a comment that you're disappointed he has so little respect for you and women in general that he expects you to tolerate his diatribes with no right of reply.

SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 13:40

Sorry if I missed - how old is he?

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:48

He's 21.

OP posts:
Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 13:50

mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1148639821113544704

This is mimmymum's smearing and speculation. It gets passed around as if it's factual evidence. If your son can find anything of substance here let us know.

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:50

MoltenLasagne

Spot on. But he told me that bigots don't deserve respect and deserve all the hate that comes their/our way.

I would tell him that one day he'll grownup and feel embarrassed about the position he's taken on this but inthink that would just consolidate his position for evermore.

I'm trying to keep it as non blamey and non judgemental as possible sot hat he.doesn't feel he cant come back from it when he's grown up a bit.

OP posts:
Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:52

Escapeplanning

Right...

Thanks for that. If he mentions it again, I'll just tell him I'm not interested unless he can provide sources.

OP posts:
Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 13:54

This is funny. She says this:

"I’ve investigated and can reveal they’ve raised over £280k!!! 😳"

Investigated. - added up
Can reveal - here is the total.

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 13:56

Investigated. - added up
Can reveal - here is the total.

Haha, I investigate Sainsburys in a similar vein on a weekly basis...

OP posts:
SerenityNowwwww · 05/09/2020 13:58

We have always told DS that he needs to always have a follow up to any statement. So he can’t just say:

I’ve read xyz book
I don’t like xyz film
Xyz politician is good/bad
Gorillas and monkeys should have human rights (we watched spacechimps when he was little)
He’s a bad man, I don’t like him
My teacher hates me
I like xyz...

Because if life there is always the follow up ‘why, Why not, What makes you think that, where did you read this, have you followed the other sides argument...’

‘Just because, someone told me, shut up you bigot’ just won’t fly in our house I’m afraid.

ThatLibraryMiss · 05/09/2020 13:59

Transitioned males have very low testosterone and there is no evidence to suggest they retain an advantage in women's sports - evidence that suggests otherwise is flawed.

I would really, really like to see the evidence against this, because it’s what my daughter trots out.

mostlydrinkstea · 05/09/2020 13:59

As a religious woman I can say that the US religious right are not funding UK feminist groups because it is the very opposite of what they believe. With three degrees which include one in politics and a postgrad theology one I could tell him this but the religious right would be quite clear that as a woman I have no place teaching men anything. Ah well.

Deliriumoftheendless · 05/09/2020 14:00

He 'identifies' as bisexual and I can't prove that he isn't because he's never had a boyfriend.

I identified as heterosexual long before I had a boyfriend, so maybe he just hasnt had chance.

Although Bret Anderson tried that line in the 90s.

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 14:02

SerenityNowwwww

Likewise.

And on every issue other than this he is able to.

But he either says his responses are follow up justifications or he says would he really be expected to justify his position to neo-nazis or racists or homophobes? No, because some positions are just so intolerable they're not deserving of a reasoned argument (because they're just wrong) and you can't argue with 'stupid'.

Hate is hate.

OP posts:
nepeta · 05/09/2020 14:03

@ThatLibraryMiss

Transitioned males have very low testosterone and there is no evidence to suggest they retain an advantage in women's sports - evidence that suggests otherwise is flawed.

I would really, really like to see the evidence against this, because it’s what my daughter trots out.

Some evidence on that

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31794605/
www.preprints.org/manuscript/202005.0226/v1

ThatLibraryMiss · 05/09/2020 14:04

Thank you, @nepeta.

Original poster
LateSummerGarden · 05/09/2020 14:06

I identified as heterosexual long before I had a boyfriend, so maybe he just hasnt had chance.

Quite. I dont know whether or not he's going to bring a man home next. Which is why I wouldnt argue against it. He sees it as being no different.

In that 'you can't prove a negative'. He can't prove someone isn't a woman in their head so he'll just accept that they are and feels the rest of society ought to treat them accordingly.

OP posts:
Escapeplanning · 05/09/2020 14:08

No, because some positions are just so intolerable they're not deserving of a reasoned argument (because they're just wrong) and you can't argue with 'stupid'.

At the simplest level this is how he is describing the protected characteristic sex and the associated exemptions in the 2010 Equality Act.

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