Funded by the US religious far right...

[LateSummerGarden]

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

mostlydrinkstea

He knows that really. But he also says that, in the vein of 'uniting in the face of a common enemy' we are each grateful.for the superficial.support of the other. Our combined hatred of trans people.has blinded each of us to this fact.

Apparently, women should realise that our enemy's enemy is not our friend.

So we like their money, they like the credibility offered to them by UK organisations. Or something. Neither of us care where thebsuppt comes from as long as we have it.

Prove the hate. Is it a one way street? Define hate - is it disagreeing to threatening with a painted baseball bat (they sell these online - and these arena sports equipment). Ask him if he is one of those people who meet disagreement with death threats? Because I’m sure that’s not how he was brought up. He is a fool of his argument is ‘you are a nazi’. Tell him to read his history on that.

Refuse to discuss unless he has evidence that is actually sourced (and a tweet or meme ain’t it, buster).

Show him the sponsorship and supporters pages of ‘the other side’ on their websites. Show him the accounts - the lottery money, the money from government and tv telethon charity drives. If he is investing so much in this argument he needs to do his homework, because he won’t always be bullying his mammy on this.

Show him how big pharma makes money - is he that naive that he thinks they are producing such medication for the good of mankind - or just to make mega bucks?

Something I’ve noticed with most who have no vested interest but spout the dogma, is that it’s very much like medieval peasants and the church. They’re understanding of what they believe is actually very thin, but they listen to the high church elders and swallow their promise of a better world and a place in heaven if they accept without question. They don’t consider that those who preach to them might have a less than pure desire to accumulate power and wealth, and when you show the flock that the preachers have feet of clay, you knock their carefully constructed worldview off kilter, so they resist and dig in because it makes them deeply uncomfortable.
I have found one way to really blindside woke men, though. Point out the misogyny in their beliefs. They have no ready answer, as in order to defend themselves they have to deny your feelings and lived experience as a woman, and as people’s feelings and lived experiences are oh so bloody important to the chronically woke, it gives them the choice of either shutting the hell up and accepting that they might be wrong, or acting like the sort of blustering mansplainer gammon they actively despise. It’s proper steam emitting from the ears stuff if you’re clever about it. 😁

SerenityNowwwww

He's not saying I'm a Nazi, per se. He's saying the pro women movement is as deserving of as much respect as any other 'hate' movement all of whom can justify and reason their position on the basis of stereotypes beliefs; misrepresentation and smear campaigns.

He is aware of, and accepts the 'big pharma' issue but responds that that issue isn't restricted to the trans movement and isn't relevant in the lives of most trans people who 'just want to pee'.etc.

Show him the accounts - the lottery money, the money from government and tv telethon charity drives

That just validates it to him. Why would the gov and the lottery support movement if it were so fundamentally flawed?

If it were actually true do you think the TRAs wouldn’t be tweeting about it constantly?

If it were true they would be rubbing the evidence in everyone’s faces.

If it were true screenshots proving it would be every TRA’s pinned tweet.

Ask him if he is one of those people who meet disagreement with death threats? Because I’m sure that’s not how he was brought up

No, of course it's not, but he is following the BLM and police related riots in the US currently and feels that they.are justified if they achieve a better outcome for Black people (regardless of who dies in the process) and that the suffragettes were no less violent and no one would consider those causes to be invalid. Oh, and TW wouldnt 'need' to threaten us with violence if we were just more open and reasonable. And the violent ones aren't representative of them all.

He just thinks women need time to catch up and we've spent too long being invested in our own interests. He knows and agrees that women's rights aren't where they should be but also that we won't achieve them if we focus on the issue of keeping some.women (TW) out and that we've been manipulated into focusing on this single issue which is going to prevent us from achieving equality.

Vermeil

You're so right. this is exactly right.

And it's a position that's easy to maintain from your bedroom in comfortable, leafy, middle class suburbia...

Sounds like he's got utterly bogged down in a conspiracy theory. He definitely needs to evidence it.

Why would people fund things that are flawed? That’s his contra argument surely? And explain basic marketing principles to him - I know someone who works for an international business who are very very wokey (on paper). In reality (he says) they would back puppy drowning of it was popular and for them more business.

Human history is littered with people funding the wrong ‘uns.

Has he no pity for women and girls raped and murdered (I’m India in these cases): there was a case this week of a three year old girl raped and murdered over a family feud as ‘revenge’? The teenager girl raped and murdered in her way to register for exams, the baby girl found buried alive in a graveyard, the ‘missing’ girls worldwide aborted or murdered (even the UN acknowledge this). Ask him how this stacks up with his understanding of an oppressed and hard done by group in society. Ask him if this is the works he wants - actual matters of live and death that these girls and women have no power over because men are calling the shots.

Remind him that he is a man... let that hang with him.

Sorry about the typos (my autocorrect hates me). Read it fast and maybe it makes sense.

@LateSummerGarden

I identified as heterosexual long before I had a boyfriend, so maybe he just hasnt had chance.

Quite. I dont know whether or not he's going to bring a man home next. Which is why I wouldnt argue against it. He sees it as being no different.

In that 'you can't prove a negative'. He can't prove someone isn't a woman in their head so he'll just accept that they are and feels the rest of society ought to treat them accordingly.

Does he therefore agree that everyone should be treated as whatever they identify with? Is he in favour of agreeing with anorexics that they are fat, 'to be kind'?

Or can he see that in some cases, the kindest thing to do is to point out someone else's delusion?

Having thought about this, I don't think there's any point in arguing about the funding stuff. The question to ask him is: can you answer the arguments made by feminists? Why are their arguments wrong? It doesn't really matter if the arguments are made in bad faith or not, the question has to be whether you can show the arguments to be false.

I always wonder who specifically is supposed to be funded by the US religious far right. It's always so vague...

Is it Mumsnet? J K Rowling? Posie Parker? Julie Bindel? Jane Clare Jones? Graham Linehan? Woman's Place UK? Keira Bell? LGB Alliance? Miranda Yardley? All of the above?

Come on, make some specific (actionable?) allocations!

JK Rowling is a multi-millionaire. She hardly needs funding from anyone. She has in fact given away millions of pounds to left-wing charities.

How does he square this circle?

Given what you’ve replied with so far OP, I’d go the other route. I’d shake my head sadly and despair at the fact you thought you were raising a boy capable of supporting women like you and capable of critical thinking and it’s a massive disappointment to see how he’s turning out, incapable of either. Tell him you’ll discuss it again when he’s grown up a bit, because he sounds like he’s still in the petulant teenage phase and will never admit he’s wrong.

Then wander off looking sad, with the sad theme tune to the old Incredible Hulk tv show playing in your head.

This. Because that's what the situation actually is.

That just validates it to him. Why would the gov and the lottery support movement if it were so fundamentally flawed?
So.... He's a Brexit supporter? Because government would never support something fundamentally flawed

I am leaving this here. Print it. Put it on your fridge. Say nothing.

Why has my post been hidden?

You are playing to his misogyny by seeking his approval for your opinions.

I hate to say it but your "conversations" sound a bit like you are begging his lordship to bestow his blessing upon you and then he pees on your feet while smirking.

Be superior. You ARE his superior.

He is talking nonsense. Likely reasons are:

• he is swayed easily by peer pressure
• he cannot do research properly
• he enjoys toying with you (sounds like this)

He is also insulting you by saying he thinks you can't think for yourself and are easily manipulated by extremists. I would be far more "how dare you!"

An eye roll and refusal to play would be my approach. I would refuse to be drawn in if he starts by (a) simply ignoring and if pressed (b) w"e will have to agree to disagree, let's talk about something else" and if he gets very pushy because he likes the kick he gets from dominating mummy (c) "I said no and I meant it, now stop pestering" (ideally the phrasing and tone you used when he was little) then hang up/walk off.

I think you are actually in a patriarchal battle for dominance. The young man wants to be the boss of his old mother, as is his right in his mind. Big bag of nope.

OP. I do think the 'parent' factor is worth considering. So many of our adult children turn back into toddlers / teenagers when confronted with their parent's views and no matter how justified, they will not accept you have a point. Sometimes (not always) it's a form of bullying their parents by disrespecting their views
Personally I stopped engaging and being dismissed by my young adults. I reckon the suggestion upthread that you shake your head at having to listen to such misogyny and disrespect for women in your own home and lay down a boundary. He can of course believe what he wants but you're also entitled to believe in facts and hold legitimate views about women's identity and safety. You won't call him an ignorant misogynist / flat earther and he's not to call you a bigot.

In my experience, as they grow up and get on with life they will one day quietly whisper "You know Mum, you're right about all this trans stuff."

Well blimey @MNHQ you dealt with my apparently 'rule breaking' post a lot quicker than you dealt with my complaint about receiving a PM entitled 'Nazi bitch' from a charming poster named 'eat the terfs' last year.

Which rule was broken exactly?

TorkTork has hit the nail on the head.

Get him to watch Dave Chappelle ask why it was easier for Bruce Jenner to his change gender than for Cassius Clay to change his name?

*change his!