Funded by the US religious far right...

[LateSummerGarden]

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

I would also ask him if he’s adamant that he’s right and this whole movement to protect women’s rights IS being funded by the religious far right, does that mean the protection of women’s rights is automatically wrong?

Maybe tell him that you identify as your younger self - a single, childless woman with the world at your feet and possibilities, oh possibilities...

Also ask him to explain the ‘erasure of identity’. What exactly does that mean (because I don’t understand) and surely by companies not using the word ‘woman’ than this is that surely? Again - why and who benefits?

He replied with a link to an Independent article about a woman who changed her position after her nephew 'transitioned' - nothing of substance, just "be nice".

My nephew “transitioned”. I’m kind to him because he’s family and I want him to be happy. Still don’t believe he’s a woman, even when he sits at the table and calls feminists TERFs.

So they can dish out insults? That’s kind...

xxyzz

I've done all of that (bar turn off the internet!)

When he hits upon something he can't explain, that's when the names, the flouncing and the "just be nice" start.

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

He's firmly entrenched.

Interesting that he thinks women have zero capability of thinking for themselves, and can seemingly only form opinions based on politically funded propaganda. If he actually wanted to apply his own critical thinking rather than (ironically) being brainwashed to think certain untruths by what he reads online etc; he would probably see that a lot of women are not actually part of any organisation, and are individuals who are passionate about it based on their experiences, concerns and worries for the future.

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman

He replied with a link to an Independent article about a woman who changed her position after her nephew 'transitioned' - nothing of substance, just "be nice".

My nephew “transitioned”. I’m kind to him because he’s family and I want him to be happy. Still don’t believe he’s a woman, even when he sits at the table and calls feminists TERFs.

Why are you being kind to him, when he is being so rude to you and other women?

Sorry for the derail, but was quite shocked at that. We women spend too much time being kind even when men are rude to us.

Given that a large number of gender critical women are firmly from the left (e.g. Bea Campbell, Julie Bindel, Joan Smith, Kiri Tunks, Linda Bellos, Karen Ingala Smith and many more), how likely is it that they would be taking funding from American religious far right groups? It would make no sense.

I know, it's a shame isn't it that our hatred and bigotry have led us down this path...

(His response).

I would also ask him if he’s adamant that he’s right and this whole movement to protect women’s rights IS being funded by the religious far right, does that mean the protection of women’s rights is automatically wrong?

But if we're not protecting all women's rights, and we're prepared to take money from these sources, then we lose all credibility (apparently).

Maybe tell him that you identify as your younger self - a single, childless woman with the world at your feet and possibilities, oh possibilities...

That's just cruel mockery and fuelled by hate.

Also ask him to explain the ‘erasure of identity’. What exactly does that mean (because I don’t understand) and surely by companies not using the word ‘woman’ than this is that surely? Again - why and who benefits?

No, I don't think he understands either. I just get a nonsense rehash of all his other arguments with words like 'identity, 'respect' and 'triggering' thrown in for good measure.

So they can dish out insults? That’s kind...

Bigots don't deserve kindness...

OP - Disclaimer: not read these links, but I know I've certainly read plenty of articles in the past pointing out that the TRA movement is funded by the far right. Here are some examples:

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/a-republican-billionaire-is-funding-the-trans-movement-and-conversion-therapy-junk-science-c0a824c3fb96

www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement

So two can play at your son's game. Rich right-wing Americans are clearly supporting TRAs - does he have a problem with that?

Or is he OK with right-wing support when it supports some things he already likes?

The most frustrating thing is that indont think he actually believes any of it, he just feels its the right thing to champion.

Yes. Facts optional: he likes the feelz of it, so don't mess up him expressing himself with facts that get in the way.

There's a lot of it about. Boris and Cummings for example, and a Castle that should have gone to specsavers. But it is lazy, stupid, brainwashed nutjobbery. Like many fashions, suddenly it's going to be the mark of a twit. And I will be happier to see the back of this one than I was to see the back of vuvuzelas.

Interesting that he thinks women have zero capability of thinking for themselves, and can seemingly only form opinions based on politically funded propaganda. If he actually wanted to apply his own critical thinking rather than (ironically) being brainwashed to think certain untruths by what he reads online etc; he would probably see that a lot of women are not actually part of any organisation, and are individuals who are passionate about it based on their experiences, concerns and worries for the future.

It's because we all congregate in the MN echo chamber, whatever our affiliation or none, and we're only reading one side of the story and if we used our own critical thinking skills, then we'd realise we were being manipulated.

Oh, the irony...

Bigots don't deserve kindness...

Yeah once you get into the double standards that is the mark of the abusive male and every society ever that has presided over a genocide, the conversation's over.

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded.

You may like to share these articles with him:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/03/jessica-krug-white-professor-pretended-black

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/25/rachel-dolezal-not-going-stoop-apologise-grovel

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/nicholas-tufnell/biid-i-need-to-be-paralysed_b_2258104.html

www.timescolonist.com/news/local/viu-accused-of-failing-to-deal-with-fetishist-s-infantilism-1.23094374

Given what you’ve replied with so far OP, I’d go the other route. I’d shake my head sadly and despair at the fact you thought you were raising a boy capable of supporting women like you and capable of critical thinking and it’s a massive disappointment to see how he’s turning out, incapable of either. Tell him you’ll discuss it again when he’s grown up a bit, because he sounds like he’s still in the petulant teenage phase and will never admit he’s wrong.

Then wander off looking sad, with the sad theme tune to the old Incredible Hulk tv show playing in your head.

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

In that case I'm not sure how you think we can help?
If he won't debate or look for any evidence to support his view, and if he considers any information or argument you produce is tainted then it sounds like he himself has caught a form of religion.
Sorry but I'm out. Good luck.

xxyy beat me to it - I was going to suggest he has a wee think about where all the funding is coming from for all the 'queer' groups that have taken over pride, etc.

Overall, though, I might try and take a step back from the 'debate' and look at the motivations behind it. I wonder if this is all a manifestation of anger from him? Where is it coming from, is he strongly motivated to do 'the right thing'? Is he looking for a cause, and if so, why this one?

I would look for common ground, and ways to keep communication channels open. I would probably avoid the hot button topic for the moment, and try to work on active listening.

*When he hits upon something he can't explain, that's when the names, the flouncing and the "just be nice" start.

It's pointless trying to explain anything or open up a debate.

He's firmly entrenched.*

This demonstrates that this is an emotional issue, not a logical one. The cognitive dissonance is there, but he's defending himself against what, on some level, he knows to be true. I'd just give him space to try and encourage him to relax a bit, maybe. Too easy to get into an arms race or power struggle.

Why are you being kind to him, when he is being so rude to you and other women?

Because I love his mother and don’t wish to distress her. I avoid his company because I find him irritating.

Or is he OK with right-wing support when it supports some things he already likes?

Yup, I think that's about the size of it.

Oh and those are not reliable sources 🙄

SonEtLumiere

Tut, tut, are you saying all trans people are sex offenders and criminals? Shame on you. Transitioned males have very low testosterone and there is no evidence to suggest they retain an advantage in women's sports - evidence that suggests otherwise is flawed. And are you saying that women are weak? That's not very feminist of you! What about Boudicca?

I think that sums it up.

In that case I'm not sure how you think we can help?

Well, tbf, all I asked for was any independent evidence of accounts, or whatever, that states where funding comes from.

I'm making no headway on the 'logic' side of things so, given that he believes he has seen evidence of receipts and accounts, I wondered if organisations are required to publish their actual accounts somewhere. Or at least details of funding sources.

Where is it coming from, is he strongly motivated to do 'the right thing'? Is he looking for a cause, and if so, why this one?

Where's it coming from?

Well, he used to agree with me but then he went to university.

I think its the only cause where he can align himself with the opposite of my position.

His peer group contains 80% LGBT+++

He 'identifies' as bisexual and I can't prove that he isn't because he's never had a boyfriend.

I also fall under the trans umbrella (according to the broad and loose definition) but, as I dont 'identify' as trans in any way, it just means it's not part of my identity and that's fine. But, for other people, it does and that should be respected.

Apologies for the sources, they were literally the top two on google, hence my disclaimer!

But I have read this kind of thing from more reliable sources, but afraid I don't have that info at my fingertips, sorry.

Apologies for the sources, they were literally the top two on google, hence my disclaimer!

No need to apologise! They're good enough for me. But that's the response I get if I try showing him something he didn't source himself.

His sources ae (equally) dubious

Haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say I have an adult former friend of many years who for unknown reasons has become a staunch trans ally. We knew each other for years. We had hours of philosophical and political discussion around our dining table. She knows I am a staunchly atheist Labour-inclined radical feminist —yet she still explains the fact that we haven't spoken for nearly three years on the fact that I am a puppet of the religious right. The TRA agenda is built on irrationality and dishonesty.

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded

Does he think white people can identify as black, and that society should accept them as such?