Funded by the US religious far right...

[LateSummerGarden]

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

SonEtLumiere

The responses I gave arent mine, obviously, they are the responses he's given when I've made the same points to him.

TorkTorkBam

I've made that point to him and he just points to TP(W) as being the victims of women doing the same.

Or can he see that in some cases, the kindest thing to do is to point out someone else's delusion?

Yes, of course he can see that. I've pointed out that the only reason he movement has gained such traction is that its men's rights movement.

The question to ask him is: can you answer the arguments made by feminists?

This is where he states that no one needs to justify their position to those mired in hate - in most matters, he is firmly on the feminist side. In this matter, we are up there with the neo-nazis, racists and homophobes and deserve no audience or consideration. He's totally bogged down in it.

He'll.lecture anyone who'll listen on the patriarchy, male violence, women's rights. Except on this matter when he truly believes TP are a marginalised, oppressed minority group. This is the latest civil right's movement.

He's not bad or stupid, he's just totally fallen for it all.

I just thought that if I could show some of what he believed is false or at least show a deed of doubt in his mind it might be something.

‘Ach, you’re talking shite’ repeat as necessary. You can’t debate with those who think they know they truth’.

He will grow up eventually and see the world with more mature eyes.

I've made that point to him and he just points to TP(W) as being the victims of women doing the same.

I think you miss my point. You are doing the legwork. He is being a mansplaining dick. The win comes from not playing his game. Stop opening yourself up to being lectured by him. Shut the wee gobshite right down. This topic is no longer open for discussion because it makes you too cross with him.

Probably got it from here www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/02/07/radical-feminists-conservatives-transgender-rights/

What tork said OP

He’s not interested in listening to you & engaging with any of your points

He’s mansplaining stuff he hasn’t the faintest idea about. I’d be getting pretty angry at this point Tbh

How dare he think that as a man he has any right to give away women’s rights

Refuse yo discuss it any further - as he’s so convinced he’s right it wont make any difference

How can a person hate women that much? What could explain that?

Is it genetic?

It's Saturday! Yay!

How dare he think that as a man he has any right to give away women’s rights

I said exactly this to my DS.

OP

If he’s interested in links between non UK based religious fundamentalists and the supposed bigotry of women, you could ask him his views on the huge financial support the Iranian Mullahs (and possibly in Pakistan- could be wrong) to pay for transgender reassignment surgery as a way to ‘cure’ homosexuality - where the alternative is execution.

The TRAs have hideous bedfellows.

What’s more bigoted - the UK’s equality act with single sex exemptions for the privacy, dignity, safety and equity of access for women and girls or the Iranian Mullahs?

*He'll.lecture anyone who'll listen on the patriarchy, male violence, women's rights. Except on this matter when he truly believes TP are a marginalised, oppressed minority group. This is the latest civil right's movement.

He's not bad or stupid, he's just totally fallen for it all.*

The trouble is that people who feel very earnestly that they are right get very het up about being right, and become very entrenched. Any attempt to argue, discuss, talk them down will fail, because it just fires up the self righteousness further and the drama and the 'them and us' dynamic.

I honestly would just avoid arguing on this topic. You can't win, I doubt it will help him (or you, or your relationship). Try pretending to agree with him, see what happens. Honestly, though, defusing the tension is key here. Nobody can move forward when it's got into a 'my way or the high way' situation, and especially not using logic, it'll just bounce off him because this is an emotional issue not a logical one.

To be honest, in your position I would stop arguing with him.
He wants to 'win' - his mind is closed to your reasoning.
I think I would point out his privilege is showing and women's rights are not his to give away.. respect is a two way street.

If you ‘win’ the argument and can prove that “UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right” is a false statement, and actually we fund ourselves what will you win?

I can guarantee it won’t be his support, understanding, or agreement.

His argument will just change, as he’s already demonstrated by saying anything GC women do is “mired in hate”.

So what’s the point to all this prove this, show that except to rile you. I’m assuming you’re not going to change your mind, and I’m pretty sure only age, or new friends, will change his.

Or maybe he can but it doesnt sit right with the line he's supposed to toe...

He's going to be resistant to having to rethink his beliefs. They are woke doctrine. If his uni friends unthinkingly promote the trans rights agenda it would make him a social pariah to challenge this or stop going along with it. I see this quite often when people are desperately trying to prove you wrong, clinging to something that they're having doubts about.

acting like the sort of blustering mansplainer gammon they actively despise

And in my experience that is what happens 90% of the time on social media but I think sometimes they're not self aware enough to realise this. They will then point to a woman who agrees with them. Or one will conveniently pop up and try to claim ownership of the "woman" POV over us bad women.

I do think it would be a more effective tactic in person, one to one. But I'd prepared for a proper Kevin the Teenager style flounce if he was forced into the position of "ignorant sexist man".

OP - is your son dating a trans woman?

If not, would he?

If not, why?

If you're giving him any kind of allowance or top-up or helping with his accommodation or dealing with his lapses into overdraft (and I bet you are) how about 'confessing' that you're funding it solely from the regular TERF Bigot payments you are receiving from US far-right religious sources?

Add that your chats with him have borne fruit and you now see the error of your ways and have contacted your source to stop sending you the money. Explain that this means you have to stop funding him now, but you know he will approve your motives and get over it.

Suggest that he might find alternative funding from the TRA movement as he's fighting their corner for them.

If he doesn't believe you, tell him he needs to show you some proof. Oh, and do stop his allowance in real life totally. It's the only way to remind him how kind and tolerant you've actually been so far.

Interesting replies.

I agree that the conversations need to be shut down. I'm not trying to change his mind, just to show a few seeds of doubt that might make him realise that his beliefs are not as failsafe as he thinks.

No, he isn't dating a TW. Of course, I've asked him and he says that he would. But, unless he does, there's no way for me to 'prove ' it either way and has he also already identified as bi without ever having had a boyfriend so... and its impossible to prove. After all, as someone else has said, I knew I was heterosexual long before I'd ever had a boyfriend!

Ereshkigalangcleg I think that explains a lot of it, tbh.

NearlyGranny

He doesnt get any allowance from me. He lives at home but is completely financially independent from me (student loan and a part time job). He contributes financially and has done since leaving school by his own insistence. He was absolutely fine and a normal, considerate kid until going to university.

That's very encouraging, OP, and suggests to me that the young man you know and love will soon be back!

Universities used to teach people how to think - now they seem only to teach entitlement and conformity. 🙄

As soon as you said he’s at university, I thought “Just drop the subject”. Universities are the worst hotbeds of misogyny right now, totally captured by the trans ideology. So sad when they used to be the home of debate — often furious and of course immature. But you would never have heard anyone seriously demanding No Debate.

It’s funny - at DSs school they get all sorts in to speak (and I mean some that I’ve almost blown a gasket over). The students have a rule that no one is allowed to interrupt or heckle and they can ask questions after (if they don’t insult or harass the speaker).

I think that’s better - lull them (the speaker) into a false sense of security with all those silent faces politely listening... then unleash a roomful of confident debating society kids on them...

thinkingaboutLangCleg

I know. It's nothing like when we went 😔

I have 2 TWAW nieces, ironically both lesbians. they’re 25 & 22. I’ll no longer debate or discuss the topic with them. If they try I just smile & say ‘yeah, you’re probably right”.

I not going to change their minds, It’s like a mantra they cling to. It’s all bound up with being kind & inclusive.

They will get life experience and get the rage over it. Then wonder...

Exactly Serenity....I think I may have seen a teeny glimpse in the older one

I only hope that they don’t end up in situations where they feel unsafe, coerced or downright abused because they feel that they can’t say ‘No’ for fear to being denounced.