Funded by the US religious far right...

[LateSummerGarden]

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

Never thought that I would find mimmymum useful for anything but that twitter thread of GC causes was like an inventory of my GC giving over the last few years! It should be well over £300,000 though (tsk, tsk) as she missed out others such as Ann Sinnott's fight for the correct application of the Equality act exemptions and the various legal actions against the Tavistock.

I am not a rich person but I choose to spend the little bit of spare cash I have (£10, £20 there) as my way of trying to improve the lives of women and girls.

There are thousands of people like me, chipping in and chipping away at this stuff and tbh it is pretty sexist of your son, OP, to assume that women could only do this with the help of the US right wing.

I am guessing that Maths wasn't his subject at uni...

I imagine he wouldn't like his dad deciding to overtly transition.

The clothes, the hair, the makeup, the heels. Demanding female pronouns and asking to be called 'mum'.

@SerenityNowwwww

‘Ach, you’re talking shite’ repeat as necessary. You can’t debate with those who think they know they truth’.

He will grow up eventually and see the world with more mature eyes.

I think this is likely in some cases, but how to explain middle aged women & mothers who are fully TRA indoctrinated?! This is what I cannot fathom. How can you be a woman and a mother and not see this for the utter bullshit it is?!

@NearlyGranny that is just genius!!

There is no point in trying to change the minds of the TWAW crowd. The best it to hope that someone on the fence or hasn't thought about it much sees stuff which makes them think. But if they are ideologically dug in NOTHING will move them. Laydown boundaries and say what you are willing to discuss and what not. But there is nothing you will or can say that will change their mind.

Ps STILL WAITING FOR MY CHEQUE FROM THE RELIGOUS GROUPS??

Zero point in engaging. It's not your job or role to convince him of anything. I think you just go about your business being critical of gender woo as and when it comes up. You don't need to justify yourself to him.

SmallPug - theres just no explaining something people. My mum had an expression for people but it’s rude.

Oh go on Serenity, I like rude

This is doing the rounds on Twitter.

Ipsedixitism

The emphatic declaration of a statement, put forward as if no supporting evidence is necessary.

That might be my new word of the week.

I imagine he wouldn't like his dad deciding to overtly transition.

No, I'm guessing he wouldn't. But who knows.

I think it's the nonsense of it that irks me the most.

He knows I'm pretty gnc - at least enough to be considered 'non binary' or 'agender' under the trans umbrella but its irrelevant because it doesnt form part of my 'identity'. Apparently.

For some people, it's apparently super important but he can't explain why it should trump biology other than "be nice". It's just silence, name calling orp0 flounces.

Probably not worth the bother but you could always bring him up short whenever he uses the words 'he' or 'she' about people he doesn't know personally and say "You're assuming their gender". (Which, like all normal people, he will be doing every single day about everyone he sees or meets.)

I enjoyed pulling my 'woke' DS up shirt the other day when he made a throwaway comment about someone being too attractive to look 'like a lesbian'.

"I'd have thought a woke bro like you wouldn't be making assumptions and accepting offensive stereotypes like that."

He backtracked instantly. Most satisfying. Since he called me T*RF, boomer and Karen all in the same conversation within two or three breaths recently, I will not hesitate to challenge his pronoun use and gender assumptions as suggested by Antibles until he grows thoroughly weary of it!

Short, not shirt! 🙄

OP - what does your son's girlfriend have to say?

Antibles I like your approach!

Probably not worth the bother but you could always bring him up short whenever he uses the words 'he' or 'she' about people he doesn't know personally and say "You're assuming their gender". (Which, like all normal people, he will be doing every single day about everyone he sees or meets.)

Oh it is worth the bother! And a great idea.

OP - what does your son's girlfriend have to say?

He's single at the moment but he met his last gf at university so she was of the same opinion and the one before that 'identified' as 'queer' (as well as pansexual and polyamorous on the basis that some of her boyfriends didn't subscribe wholly to masculine stereotypes and that she went out socially with platonic male friends without her boyfriend. So no different to me then...)

And she would absolutely have had no issue with dating a TM (of course) although, again, this has never been tested.

Do you have any pets...?😈

I wouldn't enter the conversation with him. He believes what he wants to believe.

I'd ask him this - if he had a little girl, does he think she should be able to use a woman's changing room, toilet or vulnerable space without being exposed to an adult penis?

If he says no to that, then I'd be very worried indeed.

I assume he also thinks that human sexual dimorphism isn't real? Ask him if he thinks this is true for all placental mammals, or only for humans? Do non human animals which reproduce sexually have genders, or do those species have a male and a female? If they have a sex but not a gender then why does he think its different for human animals? He'll probably tell you something factually incorrect about people with DSDs at that point. Remind him that non human animals also have DSDs.

Or, just repeat the phrase "women's rights are not yours to give away. It's not my job to educate you out of your male privaledge. This conversation is not accepting new answers and has now been locked by an administartor".

Lastly I'd encourage him to start watching the YouTube channel "Telltale" which is run by an ex cult member who dissects different movements according to the BITE modal to see if they qualify as cults. He hasn't done one on TRAs but the parallels are so unbelievably clear that he might just start joining a few dots. Also recommend The Atheist Experience on YouTube as a good debate show between theists and atheists. The TRA arguments are almost verbatum the same as a lot of the arguments for theism (not surprisingly because it's a dualism based belief system) and anyone who is even passingly familiar with formal logic should be able to easily recognise this. Neither of these channels have anything to do with trans issues and you should absolutely suggest them to him in a neutral unrelated way just as something he may find interesting. But it might just get a bit of joined up thinking going on so that next time he's parroting his TRA nonsense a little voice in his head starts going "that sounds like circular reasoning/appeal to authority/thought stopping clichés" etc. Ultimately the belief in "gender" is only a half step above 6 day creationism, flat earth theory, and the people who think an archangel helped them find their car keys, but sadly a lot of people also believe in that stuff. So I've no great hope that society at large will have the collective intelligence to reject this latest strain of anti science nonsense any time soon.

Assuming he's not actually going through some genuine crisis of faith, this sounds very much like a form of sulking. In which case there is no point whatsoever in engaging with it directly. It will stop when he makes a rational decision to stop it.

Take a more oblique approach. Start reading Eric Berne's "Games people play" slightly ostentatiously, and make a point of leaving it around open at interesting places.

Beware of Berne, or if you must, do make a point of reading his explanation of the 'game' Rapo. He wrote the book in 1964, but to anyone with current awareness of rape culture and CSE, it is a hair-raising read or an InCel textbook, depending on your viewpoint. Especially with reference to 'girls under the age of consent' aka children...

So it's 'be kind' and 'be nice' unless you feel that someone doesn't deserve you being kind and nice because they have opinions that you don't like and then it's all fine to issue death and rape threats and other violence and abuse, because those women were just asking for it really, weren't they? Loud and clear.

Beware of Berne

Oh, very true. But he's good on sulking...

Lot's of mansplaining to the FCA there.

Mmm.