Use pronouns or face dismissal

[MrsSlocombesPussy]

Saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/cupwomenspledge/status/1300406897166766080?s=21

"During the period when there was no government in Northern Ireland, the civil service altered its rule book to say that all workers must use whatever words transgender people want, or face disciplinary action – and possible dismissal."

Would be very interested to see that go through a wrongful dismissal process. Compelled speech/compelled performance of political belief etc.

Especially in NI which has more than its fair share of evangelical Christians. And did they consider their Public Sector Equality obligations before enacting that rule?

Well it's courtesy to refer to someone how they want to be referred to, to their face. I imagine bullying could happen.

The difficult bit is remembering / having to look up everyone's pronouns when speaking about them. In a large org that will waste a lot of time.

Is there anything in the doc to separate out bullying from other things?

'It adds: “Intentionally and persistently mis-gendering or using colleagues’ previous names would amount to harassment and should not be tolerated.'

That seems fair enough to me tbh. It's bullying.

I suppose you would have to prove intent?

This terrifies me. How would they enforce this with someone like me? I'm autistic, I cannot lie. I literally cannot lie. If someone asks me a question that requires a little lie, eg do you like my new dress, I have to put my hands over my mouth to stop the truth coming out, and then I have a panic attack.

It’s so much more than a case of being nice....

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Yay, equal opportunities. So surely, the new rule applies to all employees regardless of orientation? So everybody should be invited to designate a preferred office pronoun, and serves them right if every woman chooses he/ him and every man chooses she/her. Or for those who can't quite make up their minds, alternate pronouns on alternate days....

@FatCatThinCat

This terrifies me. How would they enforce this with someone like me? I'm autistic, I cannot lie. I literally cannot lie. If someone asks me a question that requires a little lie, eg do you like my new dress, I have to put my hands over my mouth to stop the truth coming out, and then I have a panic attack.

I don't know, but this case with the autistic teen doesn't bode well. www.womenarehuman.com/autistic-teen-found-guilty-of-hate-crime-for-asking-police-officers-sex-autism-group-condemns-prosecution/

Thanks for sharing that article, @Kit19. I hadn't thought of the issue in these terms before.

@NiceGerbil

'It adds: “Intentionally and persistently mis-gendering or using colleagues’ previous names would amount to harassment and should not be tolerated.'

That seems fair enough to me tbh. It's bullying.

Absolutely. It should not be tolerated in the workplace. It is nasty bullying.

That news story is bizarre.

I'd imagine the police get all sorts of stuff yelled at them in the course of their work. I'm a bit surprised this has left the office unwilling to patrol alone.

They always come in pairs around here come to think of it, the once a year or so you actually see them on foot.

Further down in the article states :

When it comes to toilets and changing rooms, the new rules suggest the creation of “gender neutral” facilities – but “whether this is possible or not, trans people should be able to use the facilities allocated to their affirmed gender”.

This leaves open the possibility of biological men using ladies’ facilities (or vice versa).

I don't know, but this case with the autistic teen doesn't bode well.

This was what finally got me off the fence. That poor lad having his face put out there for all to see and being branded hateful :(

@yourhairiswinterfire

I don't know, but this case with the autistic teen doesn't bode well.

This was what finally got me off the fence. That poor lad having his face put out there for all to see and being branded hateful :(

Indeed.

It’s not bullying not to collude with someone’s demands which are in conflict with biology and fact.

*I say got me off the fence, I wasn't fully aware of everything going on beforehand, but this case got me digging and turned me GC.

That guy isn’t fit to be a police officer. Firstly, how could someone that bloody fragile possibly cope with the job, and secondly he showed complete insensitivity (cruelty even) towards a boy with a hidden disability. And yet he’s made himself out to be the victim. I have a daughter with a learning disability and virtually every person we encounter, including other kids, are kind and accepting towards her - and yet this supposedly professional adult behaved like this. 😡

I will use people’s names as that is their name and that is fine, but pronouns is compelled speech and compelled thought. If he is a her - of course all those who are ‘her’ should have the right to be the women’s rep, to access the women’s facilities, to have their 33% higher in salary to be registered as female and mask the gender pay gap etc.

Also - you can’t unlearn a lifetime of usage of the English language.

Deliberately mis-gendering someone is bullying. Glad they are taking a stand 😊

and secondly he showed complete insensitivity (cruelty even) towards a boy with a hidden disability.

I think it's fair to say that even people with the vaguest knowledge of Autism/Asperger's knows it can sometimes make the person very blunt. Matter of fact. Through no fault of their own.

Even if the PCSO didn't immediately know Declan had Asperger's, they would have found out at some point and still pressed ahead with making an example of him.