Use pronouns or face dismissal

[MrsSlocombesPussy]

Saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/cupwomenspledge/status/1300406897166766080?s=21

"During the period when there was no government in Northern Ireland, the civil service altered its rule book to say that all workers must use whatever words transgender people want, or face disciplinary action – and possible dismissal."

Deliberately requiring me to lie is bullying. Where does this ludicrous escalation of language get us ? Shall I lie on the floor and scream and scream until you get fired for bullying me?

@yourhairiswinterfire

and secondly he showed complete insensitivity (cruelty even) towards a boy with a hidden disability.

I think it's fair to say that even people with the vaguest knowledge of Autism/Asperger's knows it can sometimes make the person very blunt. Matter of fact. Through no fault of their own.

Even if the PCSO didn't immediately know Declan had Asperger's, they would have found out at some point and still pressed ahead with making an example of him.

Absolutely. I think most people have some understanding of Autism/Aspergers now, even if they have no direct experience. And surely the police should have some training in dealing with people with special needs. The judge should be ashamed too.

I have a daughter with a learning disability and virtually every person we encounter, including other kids, are kind and accepting towards her - and yet this supposedly professional adult behaved like this.

The belief in kindness as a value never seems to be reciprocal where TRA ideology is involved.

I am prepared to avoid using pronouns. I will not describe a male as a woman.

@ArabellaScott

I am prepared to avoid using pronouns. I will not describe a male as a woman.

This.

Namechanged as a bit of a lurker but have seen the consequences of being outed. I recently joined NI Civil Service, that is independent of the Civil Service in the rest of the UK and there are indeed about 23,000 civil servants.

I've only joined in the last few months and so still in probation so afraid to ask too many questions. I haven't read it since first joining but the guidance is very much of you make a mistake and apologise and move on. But consistently using the wrong name/ pronouns may result in disciplinary action. It also states that the person transitioning may use the facilities with their new gender. It did reference stonewall so I think that is where it has come from. But the law is different here, the GRA applies but the equality act 2010 does not. There is a NI specific piece of legislation from 1976 which covers equality and I'm still trying to figure out if the sex based exemptions apply.

So in short I think the same thing as has been seen in other government guidance has happened in that an over reliance on an external organisations has happened.

So if someone asks to be referred to as other than their sex and you feel uncomfortable and use ‘they’ as a compromise - you could get fired?

@SerenityNowwwww

So if someone asks to be referred to as other than their sex and you feel uncomfortable and use ‘they’ as a compromise - you could get fired?

I think thats the gist

And if you DONT call some people ‘they’ you could be sacked as well

I’d be out on my ear then - I can’t even remember peoples names at the best of times.

@SerenityNowwwww

I’d be out on my ear then - I can’t even remember peoples names at the best of times.

Hell yeah

Its a good day if i can remember my own name

Yes I think if you work with Anne who you know is a transwoman, deliberately calling them he/ Dave all the time is bullying.

The toilets thing is not good.

I'm ok with using they but I suspect that could be seen as harassment as well which would be shit.

What happens with pips bounce types?

I'd like to know the position for people who avoid using pronouns altogether. Would I be sacked for refusing to use certain words? Because that would be interesting.

I’m sure you’re picturing a rather sympathetic Anne. What about Karen White, Jessica Yaniv ? What about them is female ? Why would they be a she because they say so?

And by the way I’ve only picked on those two because MNHQ allow us to talk about them fairly accurately.

Pips Bunce does get annoyed if you call them he on a she day . And uses the toilets they feel like according to the day of the week.

Yup. It’s coercive control.

Yep. It's back to the emperor's new clothes again.

The thing that's irking me is...I have no issue whatsoever with genuine trans people who suffer with dysphoria. I'd always do my best to refer to the them as he/she, but I am only human and I'd hope they'd be understanding if I made an honest mistake. I'd never set out to deliberately upset someone.

But the definition of trans has been hijacked. The definition is basically 'anyone who wants to be trans is trans', including drag queens, fetishists, cross dressers, attention seekers etc. We're basically going to be forced to play along with someone's fetish, and I want no fucking part in that. The majority of us don't go to work to help someone 'get off'.

I think it was a big mistake making trans an umbrella term. It's not fair on genuine transmen and women (or transsexuals), nor on us who are going to have to play along with it.

What if your first language doesn’t use pronouns and you make mistakes?

@SerenityNowwwww

What if your first language doesn’t use pronouns and you make mistakes?

I wonder about blind people who rely on voices.

I mean, I'd love to be confident that some compassion would be shown, but after what happened to Declan Armstrong, the teen with Asperger's mentioned earlier...my hopes aren't very high that common sense would prevail.