Writing to restaurants and cafes with single-sex loos - anyone want to join me?

[williammorris]

We had a lovely meal in a local restaurant last week - four of us - so the bill was around £130 and on a day when it wasn't eat out to help out, and they were relatively quiet.

Went to the loo at the end - and the three cubicles were single-sex with the wash basins outside in quite a limited space. One of the cubicles was in a mess, with the toilet seat up.

I'm fed up with this. I have a decent disposable income and from now on, I'm boycotting all local restaurants and cafes that don't separate by sex, and I've written to this one to tell them that, spelling out why - e.g. women and teenage girls don't like dealing with sanpro with men in close proximity and the mess you inevitably get.

In future, I'll email to ask about their toilets before making a booking.

Does anyone want to join me in doing the same? I'm guessing it's often men who decide the layout without thinking about the impact, but if we start writing and asking, it may dawn on them they could lose business because of it.

Trad wife. jeez

As a side note I'd love to know what job you do that enables you to have a "sizeable disposable income" as well as having the time to contact every establishment you want to visit in advance and have this discussion with them

Eh? Anyone with family members who have disabilities, allergies or food intolerances will do this - it's part of the booking process!

@Kantastic

This is a very strange thread. Lots of new usernames putting down OP and making a point of saying "I won't be joining you" - why is that? usually people don't bother with threads that don't interest them

I can only conclude OP that this suggestion has upset a lot of people who are for some reason opposed to women having our own spaces, and it's probably a good suggestion. I do check about unisex toilets when I book a place.

I think that's not really what's going on

The OP asked people to join her, which explains the responses.

But single sex toilets have never been a good campaign to try and create unity around. Partly because people have very differing opinions, but also I think because there are so many different kinds of situations and toileting arrangements. A cafe with a one room toilet for all is nothing like a cineplex with 50 stalls, or an office with a few workers is not much like a bus station.

People are often thinking of totally different situations. Individuals circumstances are different too, if they have small kids etc. And IME they also often have more varied viewpoints about toilets than about change rooms, hospital wards, etc.

It may be why TRA started with toilets, it's just not a big rallying cry in the abstract.

Single SEX facilities are safer, so no, I don't want to share with a man who identifies as a woman for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread.

But goosefoot.

Why does the UN campaign for separate toilets.

They see it as being a barrier for women and girls for education and work

Yup, I didn't say that and have no need to justify my income, how I allocate my time, or why I feel strongly about protecting single-sex spaces, but, yes, very snide.

An email takes me a few minutes to write, it's really not difficult or time-consuming.

@Kantastic

As a side note I'd love to know what job you do

Wow what utter snide assholes are populating this thread, are some people trying to get it deleted? Why would anyone do that?

It's rather shocking in this day and age that women are viewed with suspicion if they say they have a sizeable income, and can phone up restaurants.

Omg datun. So true

How very dare she 😂😂👏👏🔥🔥

...sorry have a sizeable income and write emails.

Whatever next.

Uppity women. That’s what they are. Uppity

I sometimes write emails whilst working for my sizeable disposable income if I'm waiting for a large report to download or part of my system is closed for maintenance. I'm such a rebel.

@Knobblybobbly
Lol..... spy cameras? Seriously?!*

www.thesun.co.uk/news/12430560/sainsburys-worker-filmed-colleagues-camera/

[quote Thelnebriati]@Knobblybobbly
Lol..... spy cameras? Seriously?!*

www.thesun.co.uk/news/12430560/sainsburys-worker-filmed-colleagues-camera/[/quote]
Indeed.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-spy-cameras-hidden-public-places-peeping-toms-a8689626.html%3Famp

Peeping toms are installing clandestine cameras in rental and student properties or public spaces including toilets, swimming pool cubicles, changing rooms and tanning salons, in an attempt to capture explicit photos of women without their consent.

We have got a problem with voyeurism in the UK. I have come across awful convictions. People are not particularly well informed about the problem. In some cases, the victims are never going to be aware. I suspect it goes on an awful lot more than we think.

@littlbrowndog

But goosefoot.

Why does the UN campaign for separate toilets.

They see it as being a barrier for women and girls for education and work

Which it is. But it's a very general statement and it's not the only concern people have.

But what counts as a single sex facility? And where are the needed?

The OP has asked for support boycotting particular places without the arrangements she accepts. Which is rather vague.

If you asked people about specific legislation that dealt with different kinds of situations - what you need in a facility that serves so many people, what the exact construction of toilets can be, etc, you might get some opinions. Most women don't want to go into a large bus station toilet in the night where there might be men.

But restaurants have lots of different arrangements depending on their age, the size. Some people are ok with individual cubicles with independent sinks and others aren't. Some people aren't.

It's not surprising that people aren't jumping on a boycott when they don't even know what it might really include.

Goosefoot.

If you look up history on toilets. And why women campaign Ed for toilets. I think at one time it was called the urinary leash

I don’t see the women have been campaigning for uni sex toilets

It is important

It’s not just ignore it stuff it’s just toilets

It’s important when we are out and about

Although I my h prefer toilets separated by sex, I've cleaned supermarket loos and to be honest, women are as filthy as men

Indeed.

Anyone who has worked in a pub or club will know that the idea that the women's toilets will be pristine at the end of night is complete bollocks.

Grim choice as it is I would rather deal with piss on the floor and petty vandalism in the mens toilets then picking up used tampons off the floor of the ladies.

I used to think I wasn't bothered about unisex loos, & when I had a big for his age small boy alongside 2 younger sisters, they'd have been a bloody godsend, honestly.

But I don't think anyone is arguing against additional unisex spaces - just against the removal of all female only provision.

I would tend not to go with a group of friends to a restaurant that I knew had only unisex loos unless I was sure everyone would be fine with it (I live in the ME & am fairly confident that barely anyone I know here would think it ok...), but I save my greater ire for facilities in schools/hospitals/prisons where women have no choice but to use whatever provision is there. It's not SO important if it's a bar or restaurant & you can just take your custom elsewhere.

I'd let a restaurant know though, if they were doing a customer survey or asked me if I was happy, that unisex toilets put me off to an extent & meant I'd have to think about returning, depending on who I was eating with.

I sort of get it for quaint little olde tea shoppe places. There's a tiny cafe my parents sometimes pop into in their village, which has one standard & one bigger, accessible toilet, & absolutely nowhere to put a third. So both are unisex (& spotless, to be fair).

As a substantial majority of their clientele are female (school run in the morning, local elderly ladies for lunch) & more than averagely pushing prams or using a wheelchair, I do see where they're coming from. (My dad always pops over the road to the public loos because he just feels uncomfortable using a toilet he sees as 'well it's really the Ladies').

Anyone who has worked in a pub or club will know that the idea that the women's toilets will be pristine at the end of night is complete bollocks.

Well I agree that the toilets in establishments where people are often drunk, are likely to be disgusting regardless of sex of users.

But IME this is not the case in cafes, restaurants, shops, service stations, theatres, cinemas, etc. Women's toilets in these places are almost always much cleaner.

It is horrid if a woman has dripped urine on the seat and left it there, but I find it far worse in a unisex facility to find the seat up, with urine down the front of the bowl and on the floor surrounding the toilet. And sometimes all over the back of the toilet too

I own a business and we have three loos, all unisex, one disabled access.

Please don't write to small businesses and basically put them in a situation that they cannot win.

I am completely gender critical but I have unisex toilets because this is what works best. They are all private fully enclosed and clean, I clean them four times a day and I promise you there are no spy cams as I check.

I can't tell you how devastated I would be to be dragged into this fight, whole businesses could be lost when we're already on our knees because of Covid.

There's no way for business to win this, they are either branded transphobes or misogynists.

Please please don't go after small businesses.

@DevonHoliday20

I feel the same way as you OP, and am also v suspicious of the points raised by *@kantastic*.

It is not clear whether the set-up you describe is fully enclosed cubicles like rooms, with no gaps in walls or doors, or whether it is more traditional cubicles. Either way is illegal, as for facilities to be unisex, they have to be fully enclosed, and must also have their own sink etc.

However, even if fully enclosed, with separate sinks, I STILL want single sex facilities, for these reasons:

• Risk of spycam placement, which is on the increase.

• Mess left by men (I don't care that some posters claim women are equally messy. In my experience, that is rarely the case).

• Risk of being pushed into one of these rooms and assaulted.

I much prefer one large, single-sex room with multiple cubicles, because it reduces waiting times, it feels safer to be with other women, and if someone collapsed in a cubicle, others could easily see that and access for help.

Well don't ever go to for example Forum & Mason or The Royal Opera House. They meet your single sex requirement but all their toilets have floor to ceiling walls with no gaps. Many, many places have that layout.

@Snoringferret

I own a business and we have three loos, all unisex, one disabled access.

Please don't write to small businesses and basically put them in a situation that they cannot win.

I am completely gender critical but I have unisex toilets because this is what works best. They are all private fully enclosed and clean, I clean them four times a day and I promise you there are no spy cams as I check.

I can't tell you how devastated I would be to be dragged into this fight, whole businesses could be lost when we're already on our knees because of Covid.

There's no way for business to win this, they are either branded transphobes or misogynists.

Please please don't go after small businesses.

I am fine with that layout.

I'm still waiting to know what "agenda" I'm supposed to have because I don't support the OP on this.

Well, Fortnum & Mason's and The Royal Opera House are definitely not the sort of places I tend to frequent!

However, I am satisfied with single sex toilets with no gaps, as in I would not boycott somewhere because of that. But I prefer the layout I mentioned as best for all women. I do not feel at all likely to collapse or fall ill within a toilet cubicle, but I would like to think that any woman who did become unwell, would be noticed and helped.

You do not make it clear whether these establishments have facilities with multiple enclosed cubicles (rooms) with a separate bank of hand basins, within a larger room, or whether they are completely individual and open onto a corridor, so I cannot comment further upon risk of assault, and waiting times (as per my quoted post).

Well, Fortnum & Mason's and The Royal Opera House are definitely not the sort of places I tend to frequent!

Most half decent places have switched to the floor to ceiling layout.

As far as I'm aware it is not essential that the basin is in the cubicle for it to be acceptable as mixed sex /unisex.

I have no problem whatsoever with unisex/ mixed sex in restaurants or theatres. My personal preference is floor to ceiling cubicles. I really don't like cubicles with gaps.

And I'm still waiting to hear what "agenda" I'm supposed to have.

Why can’t be ask for what we need any more. I hear that some people don’t have a problem, but what about those that do. Surely that is the only way to look at it? A room for use of parents with children if there is room , but don’t get rid of the women only ones. To be fair changing rooms are of concern, and we must keep our guard up...

I think the confusion for some people is what unisex re toilets means.

When I think of, or talk about unisex loos I mean a single occupancy space (a small, fully enclosed room, with a sink, and sanpro bin).

The OP is talking about a larger room for use by either sex with individual cubicles, and shared communal sinks.

Single occupancy loos are usually by design unisex. Most people are happy with this when they are for eg public loos, or in smaller establishments.
Snoringferret this sounds like your set up.

Most people are not happy with the layout as described in the OP.

In large venues ie malls, cinemas, etc I think most people would prefer large single sex spaces with individual cubicles (and urinals for the men’s) and communal sinks because of buggies, shopping, young children, etc and if possible a seperate family room.