Writing to restaurants and cafes with single-sex loos - anyone want to join me?

[williammorris]

We had a lovely meal in a local restaurant last week - four of us - so the bill was around £130 and on a day when it wasn't eat out to help out, and they were relatively quiet.

Went to the loo at the end - and the three cubicles were single-sex with the wash basins outside in quite a limited space. One of the cubicles was in a mess, with the toilet seat up.

I'm fed up with this. I have a decent disposable income and from now on, I'm boycotting all local restaurants and cafes that don't separate by sex, and I've written to this one to tell them that, spelling out why - e.g. women and teenage girls don't like dealing with sanpro with men in close proximity and the mess you inevitably get.

In future, I'll email to ask about their toilets before making a booking.

Does anyone want to join me in doing the same? I'm guessing it's often men who decide the layout without thinking about the impact, but if we start writing and asking, it may dawn on them they could lose business because of it.

But a spy cam could easily be placed in a female only toilet by someone determined enough to do so

Aaah so men will do it anyway so we don't need to worry we are making it easier for them.

Ruth is that you?

Spy camera porn is huge.

Theres a documentary on iplayer Amroth Stacey dooley featuring a family who lost their daughter to suicide as she was so ashamed of having been filmed.

Guess she was just paranoid though ...

Never mind males are already posting pics of themselves in womens loos, with swords and laughing about all the women who leave

Op, It's my understanding that all unisex toilets need to be completely enclosed and the basin, with hand drying facilities, must be inside.

Why is the restaurant choosing to do it? Who is it benefiting?

And yes, there are plenty of statistics to show that spy cameras are on the rise. So for people who seem surprised that men like to listen to women urinate, one might ask why sales of these cameras, are so successful.

@helpfulperson

Many cleaners on here have pointed out that the state womens loos are left in is often no better than mens. I'm also fascinated what mess you get into with San pro. Even at my heaviest it was nothing the couldn't be wiped with loo roll.

its the same with urine and faeces though, its not hard to get it all inside the toilet bowl, but some people cant manage it.

the most disgusting toilet i have ever been in was after giving birth, and the woman in there before me, left her sanitary towel out in the open, blood every where. Absolutely disgusting - I too had just given birth, but managed not to leave the area in such a state. She was plenty able to clear up after herself, as was evidenced by her behaviour in the ward (but thats another story) and worse case that she wasnt. she could have reported it and asked for a cleaner, but no she was just disgusting

I'm in agreement. I don't want to share restaurant, bar or any public toilets with men. I'm even no longer happy to share changing village spaces with men at pools since a man was found filming under the tiny gap under the changing cubicle wall at my local pool (this is a bit of a tough country area in Northern Ireland so he did get a hiding before the cops arrived).

And what about those of us with buggies and toddlers.

Sometimes we have to leave the door open as there is no space to get us all in

Or should we just stay at home.

No, obviously, I do not want to make it easier for a man to rape a woman. I simply have a different opinion to you regarding unisex toilets and the risk it poses to women.

Is it ok to have a different opinion here without being accused of being ‘pro-rape’? Or are you ‘one of those’ who likes to throw accusations like this around when somebody doesn’t bow down to your opinion?

As someone who is a victim of sexual assault by a man (in a kitchen) and a woman (in a bedroom) I really fail to see how a unisex toilet in a restaurant is any more dangerous than any other place.

I do wonder whether some people just enjoy the drama of a cause.

Don’t tell me.... you’d rather a transgender woman didn’t use the same bathroom as you either?

And my husband has taken a buggy into a toilet.

Men also look after children.

Did I stumble into a trad-wife forum?

? my dc were frequently parked in front of the urinal whilst their dad could wee, which did not require him to remove/half mast his lower clothing. He was no more vulnerable with the dc than without. A woman, sitting to wee, has herself and her dc more vulnerable.

Oh the drama!

And what about those of us with buggies and toddlers

There are many people who find tiny cubicles prohibitive. These include people with mobility issues who don't need the disabled space (if there is one) people like me who don't drive but who use a market trolley and so on.

The issue here is that cubicles need to be bigger. Not that they need to be mixed sex.

@Knobblybobbly

No, obviously, I do not want to make it easier for a man to rape a woman. I simply have a different opinion to you regarding unisex toilets and the risk it poses to women.

Is it ok to have a different opinion here without being accused of being ‘pro-rape’? Or are you ‘one of those’ who likes to throw accusations like this around when somebody doesn’t bow down to your opinion?

As someone who is a victim of sexual assault by a man (in a kitchen) and a woman (in a bedroom) I really fail to see how a unisex toilet in a restaurant is any more dangerous than any other place.

I do wonder whether some people just enjoy the drama of a cause.

Don’t tell me.... you’d rather a transgender woman didn’t use the same bathroom as you either?

It's not about rather this or rather that. It's that men pose a risk to women. Irrespective of how they say they identify.

Which is why, when women are in a vulnerable position, away from the crowd, or with their knickers round their ankles, or getting changed, they are more at risk, and therefore generally more comfortable in a female only environment.

Statistically men commit over 95 percent of all sexual assults.

90 percent of sexual assults that happen in public changing rooms etc happen in mixed sex facilities.

Its not drama over nothing.

Single sex provision is safer for women. Doesn't eliminate risk entirely but it reduces it quite dramatically.

Men pose the greater risk however they identify. Sex segregatiom is safer for women.

I would choose floor to ceiling cubicles with their own basins in, with one of those being bigger and appropriately kitted out for disabled people and changing facilities. I’d be happy for those cubicles to be unisex.

I've also noticed an uptick in this forum of random posters making comments downplaying women's concerns.

I think where the sink is situated is very important. Expecting both sexes to stand side by side in a communal area and wash their hands together seems to be the new part of the arrangement. Small restaurants might only have room for single toilets but these should have a sink included in the cubicle in my opinion. I think most people like some privacy , even if it's just to comb their hair or put lipstick on.

@TweeBree

I've also noticed an uptick in this forum of random posters making comments downplaying women's concerns.

Indeed. I don't know if it's just new people joining, or if it's deliberate.

Either way, established posters will need to link, once again, to all the information.

Not everyone knows the statistics. So, I guess, opportunities to enlighten should really be considered positively, rather than negatively.

@williammorris

Sharing the same loo at a friend's or family's home is completely different, of course it is.

I'm a little shocked that on the feminism chat topic there is so little concern about this creeping loss of single-sex spaces when we're out and about. Especially when you think about teenage girls going through that very selfish-conscious phase of puberty - can no-one else remember the strong desire for privacy, especially in the presence of men and boys at that age?

Or would I be too much of a conspiracy theorist to think there's a creeping agenda coming up on this board?

You're taking umbrage with something at a very small, independent business level. Boycotting your local Italian and causing a fuss because they only have one unisex toilet cubicles is petty and probably not that productive.

If the eradication of designated spaces for different sexes is what concerns you then you need to take that complaint higher than Mr Bloggs who owns the local cafe and can't really do anything about it.

As a side note I'd love to know what job you do that enables you to have a "sizeable disposable income" as well as having the time to contact every establishment you want to visit in advance and have this discussion with them.

I've also noticed an uptick in this forum of random posters making comments downplaying women's concerns

Very weird how violence and assult against women is downplayed by the same people who think that the same men are ao violent against transwomen that the transwomen should be allowed to use the womens.

And can never answer how , if the same violent men that attack the transwomen in the mens can now follow them into the unisex toilet, they suddenly are no longer a danger to the women or the transwomen in there..

What's so special about a toilet door that renders the problen null and void ?

Perhaps these special super powered doors should be fitted in prisons ? Would sort every thing right rout

Don’t tell me.... you’d rather a transgender woman didn’t use the same bathroom as you either?

If you mean a man who "identifies" as a woman, then yes, I would prefer not to share a toilet facility with them. Because statistically, transwomen commit sexual crimes at the same rate as other men.

And anyone can claim to be trans these days. Any man who thinks it may benefit him.

@ZolaGrey A job I've worked very hard in for many years and where I've been paid equally or better than men around me. Thanks to the campaigning older women did in the past to establish women's rights and equal pay, but sadly a battle that's still not won for everyone.

I don't need to work such long hours now because I'm financially very stable through my own efforts.

As a side note I'd love to know what job you do

Wow what utter snide assholes are populating this thread, are some people trying to get it deleted? Why would anyone do that?

So snidey aren’t they. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️😎

Why is it the UN campaign for separate toilets for women and girls ?