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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie Parker at Speaker's Corner earlier today

379 replies

SunsetBeetch · 19/07/2020 17:32

Enjoy. Ovaries of steel, this woman.

OP posts:
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nolongersurprised · 24/05/2021 22:28

I think she’s fantastic. She’s very effective at getting her message across. I don’t care that I don’t agree with her about every single thing, there’s no one I agree with about every single thing, and insisting that posters do is akin to seven year olds arguing in the playground.

Broadly, this left wing insistence that everyone agree about every ideological point, or they are like Hitler or right wing US Christians or whatever isn’t panning out that well for Labour in the UK, is it?

Intelligent people embrace a degree of nuance, not blind loyalty

NiceGerbil · 24/05/2021 22:31

Caught up I think!

Why the fuck are people going on about trump and burden STILL???!!!

I mean I get the USA is an important global country but this is not America.

If you want to talk politics then we could discuss our own politics maybe? Johnson v starmer? What's happened in the DUP? The general situation in northern Ireland?

That sort of thing?

The DUP are very different in their views to the other parties and are the only ones anywhere like the religious right in USA. Does she support them? Has anyone asked?

NiceGerbil · 24/05/2021 22:35

And also. You know.

I've mentioned that there used to be big rows with her on here. I used to get stuck in myself. (Everyone has ignored that because it doesn't fit this weird teenage fangirl/ whose side are you on thing).

You can READ HER POSTS FOR YOURSELVES.

just search.

I'm sure you'll find things you agree with and disagree with. She was a VERY contraversial poster, seen as maybe a contrarian and she was very tenacious. She was banned, don't forget.

So if you're really that interested in what she thinks, or at least did when she was here. It's all there in glorious uneditable black and white!

Branleuse · 24/05/2021 22:54

I think youre probably right and im being too harsh

NiceGerbil · 24/05/2021 23:00

Or maybe not... Who knows. We all have different perspectives.

I just find it so dull that this sort of thing keeps coming up.

All about the USA for no apparent reason
You're supporting xyz!!! And 'aligning'. What, by thinking a poster is good and saying yes she's good at publicity?
And why? That's the big question (I have my answer).

The thing to do is to find out actual stuff from the horses mouth and see what you think.

To decide whether liking a poster means you are supporting whatever if there is anything you don't agree with

I mean they were general 'they' not you personally!

The constant USA stuff is massively getting on my tits. We are thousands of miles away, totally different culture etc. We have enough of our own problems without being constantly urged to talk about just ONE other country. Out of all the countries in the world.

Delphinium20 · 25/05/2021 00:44

To be fair, it was Posie who initially waded into U.S. politics on this issue. I personally felt a need to weigh in when I'd felt she went on about U.S. culture in a way that felt really off base, but I take your point and will try to be a bit more respectful about not making it all about one country.

It's refreshing to see Aussies sharing on FWR, and I'd love to see more news items like how Selbstbestimmungsgesetz (self-ID) in Germany didn't pass (by a large margin). Frankly, more from around the world who are talking about this, the better, IMO.

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 25/05/2021 16:08

I posted this on Sunday, but it got deleted and earned me a strike because I'd accidentally transgressed by using a phrase that I didn't know wasn't allowed. So here is the updated version, with the naughty bit deleted. I hope whoever was wounded enough to report the post will approve of this new and improved edition.
..................................................

I've been following Kelly Jay for several years, and haven't seen any evidence of her being either right wing or a Trump supporter.

It's very clear to me that, like most of us here, her political affiliation is to the left. Sadly we have been horribly betrayed by our left wing political parties, who turned out to be capable of refusing to listen to women's distress and legitimate concerns, choosing instead to blithely dismantle women's rights, and dismiss established child safeguarding procedures, under the influence of powerful trans lobby groups, and their flying monkeys. Leaving us politically homeless.

I have, on several occasions, heard Kelly Jay support a woman's right to choose, and speak out in support of decent social security support, and against austerity politics. She aired the uncontroversial view that young girls should have clothes that allow them to move freely and not be wrapped in "modest" coverings that set them apart from their peers, this has been deliberately misconstrued to smear her with accusations of racism.

Her overriding concern (and the one that keeps the incontinent monkeys circling above her head at all times) is the plight of vulnerable, gender nonconforming children, who are being brainwashed into believing that they are in the wrong body, along with the thousands of pubescent girls, so shocked by the pornified role society has lined up for them, that they chose to bind their breasts and "opt out" of identifying as female. (Too young to know that the world doesn't care, and is never going to make an exception for them just because they declare that they aren't like other girls!)

Kelly Jay has ovaries of steel and I get the distinct impression she is brave enough to sit down at a table with the devil himself, if she thought there was a chance she could use him to save those children. That doesn't make her a devil worshipper, just someone very courageous, who is determined to do everything in her power to protect some of the most vulnerable children in the world.

She manages to overlook political differences and goes straight to the common denominator of parental love and protective instincts. Even Trump supporters, conspiracy theorists and gun nuts want to protect their children. Everyone who sees their immature child being taken in by a sinister cult has a common interest, this is not a contagion that spares children according to the political affiliations of their parents, those parents have a common interest, and Kelly Jay gathers them into her army, temporarily united against an overriding threat. Her ability to keep her eye on the main goal, and to unite her followers from across political divides puts terror in the hearts of the child catchers, which is why they devote so much energy to smearing her and getting all her platforms shut down. Unlike so many other women standing against the juggernaut she does not allow herself to be distracted by petty spite and internecine squabbles.

There'll be plenty of time and energy to squander on infighting about who tweeted what 5 years go, who said something that can be taken completely out of context and can be used against them, and who looked askance at someone else's pint, after the practice of inflicting puberty blockers, opposite sex hormones and irreparable bodily mutilations on children has been relegated to the dustbin of history along with lobotomies, phrenology, black bile and wandering wombs.

Meanwhile Kelly Jay is one of the bravest women alive, up there alongside the small group of lesbians who protested at pride, and the first two women who identified as men to illustrate the importance of sex segregated bathing opportunities. Be more Kelly Jay!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 25/05/2021 16:44

👏👏👏

Tallwhitepine · 25/05/2021 18:51

I'm glad you posted that again Stealhsquirrelnutkin, I meant to comment on it but it vanished. Got a screenshot now though.

This bit is like you read my mind:
She manages to overlook political differences and goes straight to the common denominator of parental love and protective instincts. Even Trump supporters, conspiracy theorists and gun nuts want to protect their children. Everyone who sees their immature child being taken in by a sinister cult has a common interest, this is not a contagion that spares children according to the political affiliations of their parents, those parents have a common interest, and Kelly Jay gathers them into her army, temporarily united against an overriding threat

I have a kid caught up in this madness and I am grateful for her unequivocal support. And yours!

Datun · 25/05/2021 18:56

Brilliant post Stealhsquirrelnutkin.

Anyone can see that Posie Parker's main priority is children. She is absolutely fierce and fearless about it.

And she doesn't give a fuck.

Which is why she is so relentlessly targeted.

Your post is eloquently written, and very informative.

It's a shame it was reported.

Zinco · 25/05/2021 18:59

From just before the Speaker's Corner appearance... good stuff.

ScreamingBeans · 25/05/2021 21:14

@unwashedanddazed

Nah - it's because Magdalen was a zillion times more politically astute than Posie

I would argue that Magdalen was a zillion times more politically rigid than Posie. If you listen to Posie she talks often about her shift away from the left (although I would argue that the left shifted away from its origins). She's flexible enough to give consideration to any idea put to her, no matter which end of the political spectrum it comes from. She has one concern - the rights of girls and women. It doesn't need rigid political analysis, it needs a laser focus on the goal.

Politics has shifted all over the place in the last 20 years or so. Under Clinton in the USA and Blair in the UK the left moved significantly to the right and these last few years have seen it being dragged back towards Marxism (of a kind). You can try applying a solid political analysis but it'll get exhausting while everything around you is moving.

People call her anti-intellectual yet she has a theology degree. She acknowledges her privilege in being able to afford to stay home and raise her children as she wants. All this suburban housewife snobbery from the academics does them no favours. Her BLM video has something like 15k views in a few days. I doubt 15k people have read the condemnation from the academics.

Magdalen wasn't rigid at all. I think she wouldn't make the same kind of mistakes as PP because she was a bit more careful and did her research a bit better, but she certainly wasn't rigid in her thinking, she didn't buy into purity politics at all.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if she hadn't become ill, some of the feminists who spend so much time slagging off PP would have laid into Magdalen in a similar manner. Some had already started to, they backed off when her cancer was announced . They would have treated her the way they treat PP IMO.

womanity · 25/05/2021 23:32

Stealthsquirrel, thanks for posting that again, it’s a great post. I wanted to comment at the time but got distracted and then it was gone.

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 25/05/2021 23:47

I'd like to thank the mumsnet moderation team, who pointed out my mistake and helped me rectify it so that the post was able to pass the discussion guidelines.

It's so hard to know what we are allowed to say, and there seem to be some people who are determined to take everything in the worst possible way and report posts that were never meant to be offensive, so it was good to have concrete help in how to change the wording so that it passed the moderation criteria.

I just get so cross when someone who is working her socks off to protect children and ringfence women's legal rights gets slagged off because she isn''t a professionally trained media personality with a team of advisors to coach her every step, and spin doctors ready rush forth and contest any smears against her. It seems to me like just another way to silence women, hold us to impossible standards and then condemn us without trial.

Branleuse · 26/05/2021 10:24

Shes practically like Jesus and Peter Andre in her relentless protection of the kiddies

Datun · 26/05/2021 10:53

I don't know why people are so snide about Posie Parker. All she's doing is concentrating on the safeguarding and health of children.

The need to criticise seems overwhelming for some people.

Branleuse · 26/05/2021 11:14

well people are more than happy to pick apart views of all sorts of people who put themselves forward as having an opinion on whichever side of the trans debate. This isnt exclusive to Posie. When a controversial debate has self appointed spokespersons or very vocal activists, then thats quite a responsibility as people will look at them as a person or as a collection of politics.
Being able to overlook a persons dodgy politics for the greater good of a single cause isnt always a good thing.
Of course its a cross party issue and it isnt a left or right thing. I totally get that, but my reasons for worrying about the gender movement isnt the same as the religious right wing in america. Not even close. Posie isnt the only one who decided that this cause was worth it so looked for common ground there. I along with many others didnt, and it made me feel sick and a bit grubby and the amount of people that who were initially quite active in campaigning on this topic but have backed off now is huge. Its laughable that people are saying the same would have happened to Magdalen. I really doubt it.
There is not much common ground with feminism and the religious right, and this IS the feminist section of MN

Cleanandpress · 26/05/2021 11:32

the amount of people that who were initially quite active in campaigning on this topic but have backed off now is huge.

Many people were involved in the run up to the GRA consultation, but as it's over that's not surprising.

ScreamingMeMe · 26/05/2021 11:38

the amount of people that who were initially quite active in campaigning on this topic but have backed off now is huge.

Is it?

fruityorange · 26/05/2021 12:12

Yes

Branleuse · 26/05/2021 12:21

@Cleanandpress

the amount of people that who were initially quite active in campaigning on this topic but have backed off now is huge.

Many people were involved in the run up to the GRA consultation, but as it's over that's not surprising.

fair point, but I dont think its just about that. Ive spoken to people who feel similarly to me, and I cant imagine its that unusual either, especially when you have high profile active feminists such as Bindel who are also saying it.

I think some people here are really blinkered in pursuit of this one cause that theyd pretty much overlook anything

ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn · 26/05/2021 12:28

There is not much common ground with feminism and the religious right...

Err:
Prostitution
Surrogacy
Sexualisation of children

Even Bindel has 'worked with' and shared platforms with anti surrogacy campaigners from the US religious right. She's even written for right wing press Shock

ScreamingMeMe · 26/05/2021 13:31

But Julie Bindel is still involved in trans issues, just see her Twitter for the past few days. So it looks like she can criticise some people yet still be involved.

What is this huge number that have backed off, and where are you getting your data from?

Genuinely not trying to have a go, branleuse it's just that this is news to me.

This board gets new members all the time, the various campaign groups are still going strong, GC people still seem active on twitter (until they get banned, of course). I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

Melroses · 26/05/2021 14:00

I'm not aware of anyone backing off anything. There may have been a few who have found it necessary to change their name here on MN over the last couple of years, but everyone still seems to be everywhere else they ever were.

SmokedDuck · 26/05/2021 14:21

It might be worth pointing out to people that not all conservative and religious people, even in the US, are part of what is commonly called "the religious right".

Possibly this is not that obvious to people in the UK, but the religious right is usually a pretty narrow band of a very specific type of protestant evangelical whose theology stems from the radical reformation. They have very specific ideas about patriarchal norms that tend not to be shared by mainstream Christians, even conservative ones, like Catholics or the Orthodox or Lutherans.

Their influence is also somewhat on the wane, politically. At least for now.

But for most, the fact that they are in line with many feminists and rad fems on some issues is not an accident, they share certain ideas, one major one being that they believe human beings are their body, not souls trapped in some sort of shell that will be cast away. The material world is real and significant, so the biological connection to parents, for example is something that can't be removed from who we are. They physical body we have is a real thing with meaning, and that includes our reproductive role. They tend not to accept any identity politics formulations which can at the moment put them on the outside of a lot of the way many SJ causes are being presented, which is something many rad fems are also beginning to see as potentially problematic. They also are not typically highly individualistic in their thinking, but see society as a series of institutions and customs that shape and are shaped y individuals and groups.

Relatedly, as far as this business of Trump - part of Trumps appeal in the US has been that he embraced concerns of the traditional left that people like Clinton not only sidelined, but completely blew apart. There are American versions of Lexiters in relation to Trump, and maybe people keep in mind that he actually increased his share of the vote with everyone except white males, when accusing people of being white Trump supporters.

These positions aren't nearly so discrete as people seem determined to think, and that is not at all a criticism, it's a call for people to wake up.

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