Owen Jones says 57% of women support Self ID

[Justhadathought]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/16/right-power-victim-britain-media-no-10-millennials-twitter

I'd be really interested to know how this figure of 57% is assessed?
Since there is absolutely no chance of the general public ever having been asked if they support Self ID, let alone know what on earth it is, nor what it implies. Goodness knows...neither do most social commentators or even MPS.

What's a woman, Owen?

Which group of women did he ask?

How did he know who to ask?

Does he mean biological women only? How very transphobic of him.

"The other is a straightforward fear of the younger generation, among whom progressive values are hegemonic. On issues ranging from LGBTQ and women’s rights to anti-racism and immigration, younger people are attempting to communicate their moral values on social media to the older generation who dominate the commanding heights of the nation’s media"

"The sense of victimhood is of course entirely misplaced, as prominent figures ironically use newspaper columns or primetime TV and radio slots to complain about being silenced. Which voices are really not being heard? Is it those who speak of trans people much as gay people were once discussed – would-be sexual predators defying the laws of biology – or is the 50% of the British public, including 57% of women, who support self-ID for trans people" .

He's right about hegemony though. Nobody seems to be questioning anything. Social media is the new truth. Don't bother to read primary sources.

Well he definitely didn't ask me!

It would definitely be interesting to know how these statistics are arrived at. Somehow I suspect there is a reason that there is not a reference provided for these...

Who tf is he?

I tried to do some logic, but it's just so batshit that I can't even attempt it. There is no logic. Just meaningless words and soundbites.

OJ is that particular type of over privileged man who has a Circular thought pattern based on him thinking that: because he thinks he’s clever - therefore everything he says it’s right - because everything he says is right - therefore he is clever.’

At the very best all this is going to be is a highly selective poll that he ran for a very short time on his Twitter. Or something of that ilk.

Owen Jones doesn’t know any women outside of his twitter bubble so I’m sure that’s going to be a very unrealistic survey.

In comparison, in my survey of all the women I know, 100% oppose self ID.

He's such a hypocrite. Simultaneously claiming that most women are in favour of self ID (although that is frankly unlikely) yet putting so much time and effort into hounding and criticising women as a group. (A group that he can't even define).

So essentially what he's saying is 'women agree with me, but I still feel entitled to criticise and bully them'.

It baffles me how the women who do actually agree with him don't mind the fact that he hates them so much.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/07/09/trans-self-identify-liz-truss-gender-recognition-act-yougov-polling-women-dawn-butler/

Ah, Pink News says so...it must be true and not in the least bit selective in its questionnaire.

It's the Pink News/ YouGov poll.

There's a thread I resurrected here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3629382-YouGov-poll-finds-56-agree-with-the-right-to-self-identify-poll-commissioned-by-Pink-News?pg=3

Even if you agree with the obscurey wording and lack of context, the poll shows overall support has dropped 6% in a year. They didn't headline that preferring 'a massive 57% of women

Pink news is utter propaganda and OJ shows himself to be a poor journalist by using them as a source..

OJ is that particular type of over privileged man who has a Circular thought pattern based on him thinking that: because he thinks he’s clever - therefore everything he says it’s right - because everything he says is right - therefore he is clever.

He's also entirely motivated by the need to heal his own wound. The one he incurred as a result of having being picked on and abused for being gay. He can't see past it.

The 57% quote in the article links to penis news - so don’t click!

Penis news - who don’t believe only females have cervixes.

As if any full bodied male should be able to self ID and be able to access single sex facilities - the answer is 80-85% NO.

All in the question.

Does the Guardian realise that LOJ is 90% responsible of the abandonment of women readers?

I bet it wasn't women who bullied him for being gay, women don't generally tend to be in a position of power that lets them bully men. Again, his hypocrisy is staggering. 'I was bullied, bullies are awful. To prove how much I dislike bullies I'm going to pick someone weaker than me and make a name for myself out of bullying them'.

I think this explains it.
wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

The answer is a very different if you ask the question honestly.

OJ says a lot of things.

Even if true, 57% it's almost 50/50.

If 50% of drivers said they thought they didn't need to wear seatbelts we wouldn't devise a law around their points of view.

Feminism means defending all women, not just the ones who fit a regressive, reactionary, static ideal of what womanhood looks like. So-called 'trans exclusionary radical feminists' are rolling back on the most basic principles of feminism, that biology shouldn't be destiny, that gender is a social construct, and that we are more than what we've got between our legs ( from Pink News)

Well if you agree that gender is a social construct, what on earth is a gender identity, if nothing but a construct?And if biology isn't real, how do you know you are trans?

What women have been saying of course, is that one shouldn't be constrained in life purely on account of one's biology/one's sex......not that it doesn't exist. Of course it friggin' does.

The lack of logical consistency is astonishing.

So even in the most favourable poll, 43% of women say no to something that will directly affect them.

Not sure that’s a headline to shout about - that even in a biased poll, the group who are most affected are less keen.

I quite like having Owen Jones around, if I’m doubtful that I’ve fully understood something I can just look at what he says and know that the opposite is the position I can safely take.

'The younger generation among whom progressive values are hegemonic '

Interesting choice of word. ..'hegemony'..

Anyway it's bollocks I know at least two millenial 'terfs'.

If we are dealing in anecdotes.

@Fanthorpe

I quite like having Owen Jones around, if I’m doubtful that I’ve fully understood something I can just look at what he says and know that the opposite is the position I can safely take.

@Fanthorpe

You can make people say they support just about anything if you frame the question carefully enough.

They and Owen keep pushing this poll. Don't fall for it. In 2018 Pink News asked a different question about self ID which clearly referred to what was meant, ie changing legal identity documents without a doctors approval.

The result was that only 18% of the population were in favour. They didn't make that mistake again (and they scrubbed all mention of that poll from their site), the next two times they asked the vague question of whether people felt people should be able to identify as a gender other than their sex. Something which most people here would agree with, provided it didn't change their legal sex.

As pp have said, the Wings over Scotland link clearly explains this.