Owen Jones says 57% of women support Self ID

[Justhadathought]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/16/right-power-victim-britain-media-no-10-millennials-twitter

I'd be really interested to know how this figure of 57% is assessed?
Since there is absolutely no chance of the general public ever having been asked if they support Self ID, let alone know what on earth it is, nor what it implies. Goodness knows...neither do most social commentators or even MPS.

Of course people are happy for you to "identify" how you like. We're famously liberal and thinking 'crack on. If you want to wear lipstick and a skirt, feel free'. But phrase the question correctly and point out the implications and the support falls to 15%.
wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

Also, this isn't just about women, and it's not often that men are expected to pipe down on this subject, so the amount of people who don't think people should be able to self ID at all has actually gone up, which is the real story here.

It's funny that men, including PN editor Benjamin Cohen, Owen Jones and all the other TRA ally woke bros expect to Have Their Say at all other times on this issue, but they frame it when it works to their advantage as a women's issue. When they frame the question in a #bekind way, appealing to female socialisation. They really do despise us.

It’s a meaningless poll in a meaningless statement, in a meaningless article which ignores the silencing of the left, women in particular, who are seen as meaningless by a meaningless misogynistic wanker in a paper that is becoming increasingly meaningless.

Jones fawning little fans will nod and agree like they would if he had said 57% of people think a trans person should be automatically made the next US President, and everyone else will just roll their eyes at his idiocy.

That's a good summary

Comments open, I assume? sarcasm

87% of people think Owen Jones is a craven numpty.

Why is a gay man so keen to see women's boundaries erased? I've always wondered.

It's not surprising that the guardian is going out of business when their quality of journalism is this poor. Embarrassing.

It will all depend on what people understand by the question:
“Do you think people should have the right to dress/identity how they please” is very different to

“are you comfortable that anyone who self IDs as a woman, regardless of any medical intervention, would then have the right to access any women’s spaces, whether that is changing rooms, all women’s short lists, women’s awards, prisons, etc etc”

Most people would be happy with the former. I’d be highly surprised if the majority was in favour of the latter.

(And of course that doesn’t even touch the issue of how young children who question their identity should be supported and provided with proper safeguards in advance of any irreversible medicalisation)

Pip squeak is being dishonest, and he knows he’s being dishonest. He’s aware of all the other polls that show the opposite of this, but decides not to mention them. He doesn’t care about truth, he cares about winning an argument - not that he’s managing that either.

I love this old clip about polling from Yes Minister:

Yes, and they aren't, when that question has been asked. See the Wings Over Scotland link a pp posted upthread which explains how this has been manipulated, and the very revealing results in their own polling in both Scotland, and more recently England.

Maybe I'm naive about the Guardian in the past, but I feel it's now lost every scrap of its integrity.

And of course that doesn’t even touch the issue of how young children who question their identity should be supported and provided with proper safeguards in advance of any irreversible medicalisation)

They wouldn't dare ask that. I think we need to crowdfund another poll to do so.

The fact that women have been working round the clock for the last few years to force this issue into the public domain, seems not to have crossed his mind. He says that this 'older generation' control the media.

The fact is that until recently there was no public awareness of this issue at all...because no mainstream media carried any information about it at all. The Guardian, for example has been covering everything but this issue...as a matter of editorial decision.

If there has been publicity in more recent times, it is because of the grassroots movement. It is not top down, unlike the imposition of trans ideology.

If there has been publicity in more recent times, it is because of the grassroots movement. It is not top down, unlike the imposition of trans ideology.

Yes exactly. I think at the time of Speakers Corner in 2017 there had been a couple of cautious articles about these concerns. The publicity in the media came from the actions of TRAs towards women, women organising at the grassroots, and then the push for self ID and the GRA consultation.

I saw this and what hit me right in the face was that he knows and everyone who reads it KNOWS WHAT HE MEANS WHEN HES REFERRING TO WOMEN.

But there is a total and utter lack of self awareness by him in even realising that.

How does this YouGov poll relate to the one being reported in the Times? Are they different polls? Or is OJ just picking and choosing which facts to report on?

"We are right about this! Why are you leabing our readership in droves??? Don't you want to be on the right side of history??"

87% of people think Owen Jones is a craven numpty.

That low?

Maybe the other 13% haven’t read his stuff.

I saw this and what hit me right in the face was that he knows and everyone who reads it KNOWS WHAT HE MEANS WHEN HES REFERRING TO WOMEN.

Yes, that's a good point. Otherwise you'd expect them to separately categorise "cis" and "trans" women, otherwise there is a potential conflict of interest? But he's saying that female people don't have a problem with it because we mostly support trans people in self identifying, unlike the majority of males who don't. Of course MTF trans people wouldn't have a problem with self identifying. So he's using the shorthand "woman" here to mean female, as it does to 99% of the population.

I was trying to be fair @Xanthangum

I went round in circles for a bit on twitter with someone about how I knew if I was a woman. She said to ask other women and see if I thought I was like them.

I said that the trouble was, that when I explained why I was asking, they universally responded that in that case, they didn't know if they were women either.

She said she didn't understand why I was explaining, that that was the problem - I should just ask 'Are you a woman' and take that answer.

Their whole system falls down if anyone is actually allowed to explain so people understand what is being said/asked basically.

No thought allowed. Just do as you're told and don't examine it.

Thread about the Times Yougov poll

YouGov Poll in The Times www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3969224-YouGov-Poll-in-The-Times