Owen Jones says 57% of women support Self ID

[Justhadathought]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/16/right-power-victim-britain-media-no-10-millennials-twitter

I'd be really interested to know how this figure of 57% is assessed?
Since there is absolutely no chance of the general public ever having been asked if they support Self ID, let alone know what on earth it is, nor what it implies. Goodness knows...neither do most social commentators or even MPS.

Oooh those pesky older women. Especially those of us younger than you, eh Owen?

Even the under 25 women though aren't greatly in favour. Roughly, if you have 4, 2 are likely to be okay with it, 1 of them is likely to be against, and 1 isn't sure. I guess those 2 who aren't in favour don't count either though. They're clearly trans-bitter-old-harridans.

Yes, and now I wonder if it could have been part of a long plan . . .

Older women are wary of letting go of rights their mothers had to fight to achieve.

46% is about half, and that's in a group that's been exposed to almost insane levels of peer pressure to say yes to the question he's asking. Half still don't. So, just over half of one small demographic that's been heavily influenced to say "sure, penis in our changing rooms, that's fine", and a majority overall saying no.

The answer is "no", Owen, and I think you know that, so why are you still pushing?

(I'm assuming he vanity searches himself based on prior behavior.)

Hmm were they penis people type women that he was asking? I can't imagine OJ would bother asking the other type.

He's such a chump.

Even the majority of young women don’t want to share a changing room with a trans women who has not had gender assignment surgery.

Would OJ be happy for his gran to share a hospital ward with Julie Marshall? I am sure that 99% of the population would not.

The questions are too coy. They don’t want to say would you be happy to share a changing room with a trans woman who hasn’t had her willy chopped off? But that is what people think.

@SerenityNowwwww

Maybe if they asked using ye olde wording ‘transsexual’ and ‘transvestite’ then the answers would differ.

Very much my experience. When I first told my friends about this issue, they were taken aback at my new stance. So I explained the concerns I had about self-ID and males in female spaces, referring to non-med, non-op TW throughout.

One of them mulled this over and then went "You mean crossdressers? No fucking way." And she was just the first of many people reacting the same way.

The vast majority of the public continue to believe TW are post-op, homosexual males who have fully transitioned all the way, present permanently as women and intend to do so for the rest of their lives.

Every single survey that qualifies questions about self-ID, making it clear that it isn't about post-op transsexuals demonstrates this. Otherwise the differences between the unqualified and the qualified questions wouldn't be so significant.

OJ and his fellow TRAs know this full well. They don't care though. So what if people don't understand the consequences. As long as TRAs win.

Little OJ - he's not a political activist, he's a very naughty boy 🤣

I think that’s why ‘gender’ is the term used and pushed. It makes the edges fuzzy.

In ye olden days, a transsexual was someone you knew had had surgery and was on medication. Transvestism was more of a hobby/preference. I’m my clubbing days your meet some of both in the gay clubs.

Neither would proclaim themselves women, or enter the ladies loos (unless they were protectively swept in by women when trying to escape a creepy guy).

YouGov have commented on the recent surveys:

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/16/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

A couple of highlights:

On the topic of don’t know responses, a sizeable minority of Britons are undecided when it comes to the trans-rights debate. For every question in the survey between 21% and 30% of people answered “don’t know”.

And

Following a brief explanation of what the current requirements are for someone to legally change their gender (exact wording can be seen in the chart below), by 47% to 28% Britons tended to think that this process should not be made easier. While they are pro-transgender rights on most of the other topics, on this subject Lib Dem and Remain voters, women and 25-49 year olds tend to oppose making the legal process easier

And perhaps most interesting of all,

People tend to be fine with transgender people using facilities for their new gender, but not if they have not undergone gender reassignment surgery

That is very interesting indeed Xantham. I don't think I've ever seen YouGov commenting like that before.

Time again for my regular reminder that the term 'gender reassignment surgery' refers to any surgery to make a body look more like that of the other sex, including breast implants, facial feminisation surgery, adam's apple shaving, etc. It does not solely refer to genital surgery

I'm getting sick of LOJ wanging on about how 'women' are apparently so 'in favour of trans rights'. According to him, a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, so if that's the case then no wonder they are in favour of self id! Or does OJ change his definition of what a woman is depending on how he needs to use women for political point scoring?

And he really doesn't like non-compliant older women does he? What a pain in the arse we are!

As others have said, 57% isn't even that high when you think about the question he is referring to, and he seems to be very conveniently ignoring the fact that when asked about transwomen who haven't had GRS (which is most of them) the number goes right down. Upsets the narrative doesn't it Owen?

Problem with newspaper with a point to prove can distort survey results. Always worth trying to read the source.

The Telegraph has also reported with an article titled: Changing gender should not be made easier, nearly half of Britons polled believe

... just 28 per cent said it should be made easier.

The statistics have prompted alarm from trans rights and support organisations, who say they prove there is a long way to go “before everyone in Britain is equal”.

Dr Jane Hamlin, the president of the Beaumont Society, the largest transgender support group in the UK, said the survey was “totally distressing”.

“It is really sad that the people in Britain are apparently so far behind in their thinking compared with those in other countries,” she said.

“How can it be that those in Ireland, for example – where they recognise that the best person to decide how you should identify is yourself – are more enlightened than so many people in this country?

“If everyone had to go through the current process to confirm their own gender identity I am sure that there would be a very different response.”

... The YouGov poll, which surveyed 1,688 adults between June 22 and June 23, also found that Britons are split on whether they recognise the new gender of transgender people – 40 per cent agreed a transgender woman is a woman, in comparison to 36 per cent who disagreed, and 41 per cent agreed a transgender man is a man, in comparison to 36 per cent who disagreed.

The poll also found that men and women hold opposing views, with almost half (47-49 per cent) of women accepting the new gender identity of transgender men and women. This is in contrast to about three in 10 (29-30 per cent) who do not.

Meanwhile, men refuse to accept the new gender identities of transgender men and women by 43 per cent to 33 per cent.

Furthermore, YouGov said a “sizeable minority” of Britons are undecided when it comes to the trans rights debate.

For every question out of the 17 in the survey, between 21 per cent and 30 per cent of people answered “don't know”.

(Unless of course YouGov has done a second poll on the same issue and come up with a different outcome to the one PN and OJ are promoting!!)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/16/changing-gender-should-not-made-easier-nearly-half-britons-polled/

See also thread about IPSOS poll on same subject www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3968886-IPSOS-poll-51-comfortable-in-GP-transgender-47-confortable-if-PM-transgender-and

Interesting that even OJ highlights that men are less likely than women to agree to transwomen using women's spaces, or making spaces unisex. I wonder if this is because:

1. Men know what men can be like; and 2. Most good men don't want to share space with women, as they respect women's privacy and also prefer privacy themselves.

I was waiting for a man outside the men's loos in John Lewis. A man wandered in with (I assume) his daughter - she was about 9 or 10 - and I wondered how that would go down. Well that certainly cleared the room - and the men (quickly) leaving looked uncomfortable and a bit pissed off.

Ditto for the 'mens' changing room (unisex now, at the back of the menswear section) when I watched a woman drag a man into the changing area holding an armful of trousers (I assume she was dragging him shopping for a suit or something). Men started wandering out looking at the signs, and not looking vey happy.

@SerenityNowwwww

I was waiting for a man outside the men's loos in John Lewis. A man wandered in with (I assume) his daughter - she was about 9 or 10 - and I wondered how that would go down. Well that certainly cleared the room - and the men (quickly) leaving looked uncomfortable and a bit pissed off.

Ditto for the 'mens' changing room (unisex now, at the back of the menswear section) when I watched a woman drag a man into the changing area holding an armful of trousers (I assume she was dragging him shopping for a suit or something). Men started wandering out looking at the signs, and not looking vey happy.

Of course they do, most people find that kind of thing really uncomfortable.

And especially with kids, a lot of men are very aware of the possibility of being accused of something inappropriate. If you are a teacher or scout leader you aren't ever supposed to be in a room alone with a child, and then you're now ok to share a toilet with strange opposite sex children?

Exactly!

I have asked a few males around me and they all said that they feel uneasy if they are in a situation where there's a lost child in a park or supermarket, or when a strangers child decides that they are the most fascinating thing on the planet and must pester them. They all said that they didn't want people looking at them like they were a kidnapper (or worse)

progressive values are hegemonic

That word, it does not mean what you tihnk it means ...

57@is 4/7 I think, so Owen Jones surveyed 7 women?

[quote Rainingheavily]57@is 4/7 I think, so Owen Jones surveyed 7 women?[/quote]
Women? I don’t think he knows what a woman is.

I’m sick of debate being banned because it’s ‘distressing’. The trans movement has already way overstepped women’s boundaries. If TRA didn’t know this, they wouldn’t be so fragile about public debate.