Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

[Kelcat9494]

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

That list of tales from the Ladies toilets over the years was very moving and very relevant these days.

Powerful post, Winniefred.

I have a little experience of my own, not nearly as dramatic, but for me highly embarrassing at the time. I was 16, travelling by ship to the UK with a friend and her father. We were at dinner and I had to go to the loo, but when I stood up there was blood all over the chair -- terrible, as the other two people at the table were men!

My friend walked behind me to the loo and then she left me there and went to our cabin for a change of clothes (the loo was closer than the cabin). I got changed safely and privately in the ladies'.

Utter stupidity and hyperbole.

Nice of you to sum up your own post.

As any good second-waver will tell you, the personal is the political

As an actual second wave feminist and a woman (born a girl, raised in patriarchy), I find it interesting the way that trans ideology misunderstands that slogan. Mostly because they do not have the experience of being born & raised female in patriarchy ...

Winniefred, thank you.

Winniefred - thank you for that moving post from another women who has gone through this.
I really think anyone who reads that post and doesn't respond with emphaty and horror at the loss of unborn children and a women's experience, is a person who should never be in Women's facilities in the first place. Clearly no compassion or understanding of lived experience at all.

@PinkyU that’s all that you could reply to @Winniefred ‘s heartfelt post? That dismissive comment?

Shame on you. Just shame.

@SugarPlumFairyCakes

Winniefred - thank you for that moving post from another women who has gone through this. I really think anyone who reads that post and doesn't respond with emphaty and horror at the loss of unborn children and a women's experience, is a person who should never be in Women's facilities in the first place. Clearly no compassion or understanding of lived experience at all.

I was just about to post pretty much the same thing.

Winniefred. Your posts are brilliant. Clear and concise and sums up exactly how I feel.

Well, on face value I quite welcome some of dekalog's posts. Everyone has different posting styles, usually shaped by whatever other forums you're used to. Happy to have someone that can argue in good faith, if indeed they can. Just like i appreciated the trans partner AMA recently. Interestingly that also said that the trans man in question thought a lot of TRA claims and rhetoric were nonsense and had nothing in common with their actual experience, but decided to keep out of the arguments.

@Winniefred excellent first post, that should be saved on MN somehow

for your second

And excellent posts, winnie

@BaronEssoStation

Utter stupidity and hyperbole.

Nice of you to sum up your own post.

Yes

Excellent posts winniefred

@PinkyU

And if the paramedic or emergency responder is male? I mean they obviously shouldn’t enter the toilet as “there is NEVER any reason for any male to be in the female toilet”, the other women present should, what? just drag a bleeding miscarrying woman to the door? After all, “it’s women’s business”.

Utter stupidity and hyperbole.

Really, PinkyU?

You honestly, genuinely cannot understand why a male paramedic entering the women's toilets in an emergency situation is different from a scenario where men and women use the same toilets on an everyday basis?

Do you apply this logic in other situations? For instance, can you understand why a married, monogamous woman may consent to an internal examination by a male doctor and that this would not be a case of cheating on her husband?

Noone on this board is suggesting that a male paramedic should not help a women in an emergency. What a straw man argument.

Pinky

I believe, statistically, most miscarriages happen on the toilet.

The point is, having a loo filled with men would make a tragic situation worse.

Likewise washing menstrual blood from your hands or hand drying a blouse that is wet from leaking breasts.

Not to mention the horrifying thought that there are a number of men who find these female biological functions arousing.

When this issue was on Twitter, there were a number of men demanding access to women's toilets who couldn't see that having a miscarriage was any different from defecating.

That's the level of empathy we are talking about.

Not The strawman of what sex the person should be in a medical emergency.

Very moving post, Winniefred. Thank you for posting it.

@PinkyU The difference is that the responding male Medic in each case was there because the female in question CONSENTED through raising a 999 call! That the service providers, The NHS, did everything in their power to succeed in sending a female Medic as the first contact responder in each case, going to the effort to try to make undignified situations more dignified for the females concerned is a position I fully indorse. That this upsets your sensibilities is of no concern of mine but I stand with the NHS in trying against all the odds to meet sex based dignity in the process of delivering their medical service as and when they can. 👍

Great posts Winnie and your post about the events in the women’s loo .

I have quite often had to wash blood out of skirts and dresses. Or red wine out of shirts. Sharing loos / hand wash areas would mean on flooding days ( and I have plenty of those) I would be even more housebound. But that’s ok for some people obviously, because as long as a male’s need, no matter how they present, is recognised everything is rosy in their world.

And I know a number of friends who have miscarried in public loos. It is not a rarity.

I do find it rather telling that someone posts a rebuttal about not letting a ‘male’ medic into the loo. Way to spectacularly try to shut down very valid reasons for single sex spaces to remain.

Isn't the answer to the OP that what is found distasteful (not as a rule actually hated) by a large majority of women is not transwomen (most of whom are not offensive gits), but the offensive gits who have glommed onto trans women as a new way to legitimise their need to belittle and reduce women, whether for sexual gratification or some sort of power play or whatever other twisted reason they may have....

What are hated, and I think with reason, are these fellow travellers who want the undisputed right to go into the ladies not because they need a pee but because they want to ask strangers about tampons, wash their willies in the hand-basins, enjoy their power to upset women and make that safe space unsafe for women.

I don't give a tuppeny one if a transwoman comes into the public toilet where I am, goes into a cubicle and uses it to urinate or defecate, gets dressed again in the cubicle, washes her hands and leaves -- behaves, in fact, as a woman generally would. Chances are I won't notice that she is there, or that she has male genitalia if she does have them. Good luck to her: she has a difficult life to lead and doesn't need any extra agro.

What I do NOT want is a man in the Ladies whom I cannot simply get rid of as a sex-pest, because if I say "Oy, you! Out!" he can claim I am committing a hate-crime against someone who identifies as a woman really, hairy balls, spy camera, leer and all. Until recently, if a woman started to shout for help in the Ladies and it was discovered that an obviously male person was in there molesting her, he would be ejected. Now, if this lot have their way, she is as likely to be arrested for hate crime as he is to be arrested for indecent exposure, and of the two of them she is the one whose life is more likely to be ruined, her job lost, and all the rest of the palaver which goes with offending one of the lord-and-masters in women's clothing.

BaronEssoStation: I assumed you had some glitter shits pre-rolled and ready to give to worthy causes

You say that with the same sincerity that the OP is “trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.”

@Winniefred thank you - you spoke for us and your post should be immortalized. Thank you!!!

What I do NOT want is a man in the Ladies whom I cannot simply get rid of as a sex-pest, because if I say "Oy, you! Out!" he can claim I am committing a hate-crime against someone who identifies as a woman really, hairy balls, spy camera, leer and all. Until recently, if a woman
started to shout for help in the Ladies and it was discovered that an obviously male person was in there molesting her, he would be ejected. Now, if this lot have their way, she is as likely to be arrested for hate crime as he is to be arrested for indecent exposure, and of the two of them she is the one whose life is more likely to be ruined, her job lost, and all the rest of the palaver which goes with offending one of the lord-and-masters in women's clothing

This is currently a thing I'm spending a lot of time worrying about. I have a stalker, it's a fairly recent addition to my life. I don't want to go into many details so I'll be sparing. Hes young, hes of a religious bent, hes not currently scaring me, but I can already see it escalating and soon he will probably terrify me. Now as we all know calling the police on him wont work, because nothing has happened. Yet. But as we also know it could kick off anytime. I need to be able to run to the loos to escape and phone someone for help. In the current year I dont think that's a possibility. He will simply follow me in and claim woman.
So I'm spending lots of time in my head seeing different scenarios and how to get out of them, or better still always be outside when stalker is around. But being outside is not always possible.
If only misogyny and stalking before it gets to the terrifying stage was illegal.

I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really

Oddly, this only seems to apply in the womens.

Noone in the womens should care who is next to them, it doesn't matter. If this is the case, then why do some males feel the need to be in the womens in the first place? As surely it doesn't matter who else is there as they are just peeing?

Seems to be the same for fear of male violence too actually.

Its bigoted for women to fear male violence. But its ook for others to go in the womens as THEy fvear male violence.

Odd how it always seems to be women who shouldn't care about their own safety or anything, but its fine for others to worry.

For me, it's not "hate for trans" (although I've come acoss a couple of nasty ones - mental health issues at bottom I think, but you know, male/female/purple spotted martian - some people are just nasty ...)

Anyway.

What I object to - and will always object to - is the current trans ideology, and its attempt to redefine what it means fundamentally to be female.

Men have tried to do that for al of recorded history (eg Eve made from Adam's rib etc etc). And it MUST STOP

"Nothing about us without us" as WPUK say. Stop the misogynist erasure of women.