Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

709 replies

Kelcat9494 · 05/07/2020 11:35

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 31/07/2020 08:47

Pfft, I just scroll past all the me-me-me-ing, trying to guess how many paragraphs of waffling this time

Well that last one was me me me macbook pro me me You’re embarrassing

Sooooo....

boatyardblues · 31/07/2020 08:56

@Datun

I do love it when we women get told off with overly verbose pomposity

You have more commitment than me. I didn't get beyond paragraph three.

I'll say one thing for most of the women on here, at least they can lay claim to a modicum of communication skill.

Same here.
Winesalot · 31/07/2020 09:58

the random and amateurish armchair psychological diagnoses and assessments about individuals on YouTube – while undoubtedly cathartic to express – are an embarrassment and an affront to any notion of what genuine social activism is.

I am only just beginning Irreversible Damage and it was absolutely no surprise that these ‘influencers’ are part of the massive upswing in girls identifying out of being a woman. And I already knew this from both personal observation, being professionally very active in social media, and seeing it in action with my daughter’s friends.

I think that people reading will appreciate any insight into this group of people who build their entire lives on making this their business. whereas I could not handle to disconnect between the glamorized and highly curated content I was posting for myself and others and reality, many people still don’t realize that even with the best intentions, authenticity becomes performance over time.

So, please DO keep discussing these people who seek to ‘influence’ without consideration of just how negligent they are and how complicit they are in shaping young impressionable minds that if left unexposed would follow a different path.

Winniefred · 31/07/2020 10:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NonnyMouse1337 · 31/07/2020 10:10

Well said, Winniefred. 👍🏾

BaronEssoStation · 31/07/2020 10:18

.... the difference between Transwomen & Men is zero when it comes to Male pattern violence and abuse.

I like the cut of winniefred's jib.

If the post is deleted then it's a fucking outrage.

Annasgirl · 31/07/2020 10:23

@Winniefred - awesome post.

Melroses · 31/07/2020 10:30

We need a like button on here.

Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.
JonHammIsMyJamm · 31/07/2020 10:35

Maybe loos don’t concern you but but hospital wards, prisons, refuges, sex segregated sports are all huge issues.

There have been numerous threads like yours asking GC women to defend their positions and they have, in clear, polite and evidence based ways. Maybe look back at one of those?

JonHammIsMyJamm · 31/07/2020 10:37

If there was a like button on here, @Winniefred, I’d press it a thousand times.

OvaHere · 31/07/2020 10:40

You have a virtual like from me too @Winniefred although I'm sure you're right about the inevitable deletion. Far too much truth telling for a Friday morning!

highame · 31/07/2020 10:45

@Winniefred That piece just rocks. Straight from the heart and you could tell.

Mumsnet sometimes you have to take a stand. I hope it's sooner rather than later. That is not a hate post.

Portnlemon · 31/07/2020 11:00

Most of us feel the same way as Winniefred. You can't delete us all.

Datun · 31/07/2020 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request - posted on wrong thread.

JonHammIsMyJamm · 31/07/2020 11:05

They can, @Portnlemon but it’s not good for ad revenue to lose that many clicks in one fell swoop. Plus, I suspect that there’s a bit of MNHQ that agrees with us but is afraid of the overly litigious TRAs and their aggressive and apparently successful ongoing campaign of fear.

TheTamingOfTheresa · 31/07/2020 11:14

@Winniefred respect x

Datun · 31/07/2020 11:20

Oh I've posted on the wrong thread. I'll get that post deleted. And I've quoted the wrong person!

terryleather · 31/07/2020 11:57

Go on yersel' Winniefred !

Cascade220 · 31/07/2020 12:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Winniefred · 31/07/2020 12:37

@Kelcat9494 "I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really"

1978 Ladies Toilets Glasgow Queen St 10pmish : A voice could be heard in the next cubical, a lady in distress, I responded - I was 15yrs old and didn't know what a prolapse was but it sounded scary as hell. I collard another Woman 50ish and she told me to go phone an ambulance ASAP. I did, I told the station manager and he came down, the now 3 Women blocked him ..."this is Woman's business go wait for the ambulance." He did, he knew when he wasn't needed nor wanted.

1996 Halifax Municiple Toilets: Ladies distressed voice crying "No, no, no "... I responded along with another lady, we convinced her to open the door she was miscarrying badly ... I had never seen so much blood, great big massive clots that would take two hands to hold & I was used to stitching up animals and putting prolapse back in sheep and burying dead lambs by this time. It rocked me emotionally. Yet the way the other Woman responded was something to behold, female solidarity of experience ... that day I learned how common this was and the necessity of maintaining female sex based dignity in a crisis on the open floor of a LADIES LOO. This was female business no room for men, even her husband was asked by her to remain outside and watch for the ambulance.

2002 Southampton West Quay. Pregnant with 2nd child ... mild pain in my abdomen, felt like a desperate need to pee went to the loo, blood, quite heavy, then pressure, I thought I had pooped, it was a clot a big one, then another ... called for help, a lady had a mobile, she phoned for an ambulance and they talked her through how to position me on the open floor ... this couldn't be happening to me ... not a like for like experience to that poor Woman years ago. It was hell! But 3 Women took charge, female dignity, care, compassion, understanding. Again I learned this happened way more frequently than most realise ..it's Woman's business but it's long past time we talked openly about it.

2016 Paris Gender Neutral Toilet: Had been warned by french friends not to enter alone if I had to use at all, always ensure you enter with another female better still go to a cafe and use theirs buy a coffee or cake. I waited, saw a lady approach look at me and nod, we entered together got chatting ... she told me "another Woman was raped in these loos that week."

Just because the norm is to pee, it doesn't mean that only peeing happens in loos ... life, biology, sex has other issues going on that we don't see, know, experience individually but collectively we as Women manage, silently. There is never any reason for any male to be in female toilets not even to clean ... that is Woman's business and should be a safe space from the male gaze for older Women at risk of prolapse, Women at risk of miscarriage, for Women to take 5 from their abuser, stalker & rapists. I cannot count the number of Women that phoned from female toilets for help after being raped or sexually assaulted. To centre males is a blind spot of cognitive dissonance around female reality and a dismissal of female reality. Don't buy into Male "feeling" he has no place in the horror of female biology in a patriarchal world. X

MarDhea · 31/07/2020 13:23

Brava Winniefred.

A magnificent post ❤️

Dreeple · 31/07/2020 13:32

BaronEssoStation “I don’t give a glitter-rolled shit about them.” That's a messy job; have you washed your hands?

I said I don’t!

PinkyU · 31/07/2020 13:35

And if the paramedic or emergency responder is male? I mean they obviously shouldn’t enter the toilet as “there is NEVER any reason for any male to be in the female toilet”, the other women present should, what? just drag a bleeding miscarrying woman to the door? After all, “it’s women’s business”.

Utter stupidity and hyperbole.

Datun · 31/07/2020 13:37

[quote Winniefred]@Kelcat9494 "I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really"

1978 Ladies Toilets Glasgow Queen St 10pmish : A voice could be heard in the next cubical, a lady in distress, I responded - I was 15yrs old and didn't know what a prolapse was but it sounded scary as hell. I collard another Woman 50ish and she told me to go phone an ambulance ASAP. I did, I told the station manager and he came down, the now 3 Women blocked him ..."this is Woman's business go wait for the ambulance." He did, he knew when he wasn't needed nor wanted.

1996 Halifax Municiple Toilets: Ladies distressed voice crying "No, no, no "... I responded along with another lady, we convinced her to open the door she was miscarrying badly ... I had never seen so much blood, great big massive clots that would take two hands to hold & I was used to stitching up animals and putting prolapse back in sheep and burying dead lambs by this time. It rocked me emotionally. Yet the way the other Woman responded was something to behold, female solidarity of experience ... that day I learned how common this was and the necessity of maintaining female sex based dignity in a crisis on the open floor of a LADIES LOO. This was female business no room for men, even her husband was asked by her to remain outside and watch for the ambulance.

2002 Southampton West Quay. Pregnant with 2nd child ... mild pain in my abdomen, felt like a desperate need to pee went to the loo, blood, quite heavy, then pressure, I thought I had pooped, it was a clot a big one, then another ... called for help, a lady had a mobile, she phoned for an ambulance and they talked her through how to position me on the open floor ... this couldn't be happening to me ... not a like for like experience to that poor Woman years ago. It was hell! But 3 Women took charge, female dignity, care, compassion, understanding. Again I learned this happened way more frequently than most realise ..it's Woman's business but it's long past time we talked openly about it.

2016 Paris Gender Neutral Toilet: Had been warned by french friends not to enter alone if I had to use at all, always ensure you enter with another female better still go to a cafe and use theirs buy a coffee or cake. I waited, saw a lady approach look at me and nod, we entered together got chatting ... she told me "another Woman was raped in these loos that week."

Just because the norm is to pee, it doesn't mean that only peeing happens in loos ... life, biology, sex has other issues going on that we don't see, know, experience individually but collectively we as Women manage, silently. There is never any reason for any male to be in female toilets not even to clean ... that is Woman's business and should be a safe space from the male gaze for older Women at risk of prolapse, Women at risk of miscarriage, for Women to take 5 from their abuser, stalker & rapists. I cannot count the number of Women that phoned from female toilets for help after being raped or sexually assaulted. To centre males is a blind spot of cognitive dissonance around female reality and a dismissal of female reality. Don't buy into Male "feeling" he has no place in the horror of female biology in a patriarchal world. X

[/quote]
Yes!

Women's toilets are there to cater to women's biology, including miscarriages, morning sickness, mopping up leaked lactation, flooding periods, etc.

It's unsurprising that males in general perceive a toilet as a place to point and pee.

It's telling that, despite being told, they still don't care.

BaronEssoStation · 31/07/2020 13:43

Sorry, Dreeple, I assumed you had some glitter shits pre-rolled and ready to give to worthy causes.

Glad to hear that's not the case!