Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

[Kelcat9494]

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

"imagine ... being attacked and hated for who you are"

My trans friend doesn't get attacked and hated?
I have been whistled at, groped and harried since the age of 14.

It's not feminists who lack imagination.

I don't understand how I'm dismissing women's rights,

The right for women prisoners to not be incarcerated with a convicted rapist as part of their sentence?

The right to a same sex person doing your smear test or breast scan?

The right to a same sex person giving you a body search?

The right to compete in female only sport?

The right to defining homosexuality as it is in law? And not recreate the definition to mean heterosexuality?

The right to gather without the presence of a man?

I could go on. How long have you got?

I'm just waiting for our resident quisling to arrive and tell us off for nor bowing a scraping correctly.

I'll be in the corner with my pom bear 🐻

Give an example of the hate on here. Without evidence of that, it would seem that you are the bigot.

It's not only about toilets. There are many significant issues beyond that. Even if it were only about toilets, why should some people welcoming male people into women's toilets mean that those don't want this have to lose their rights?

"only women have periods" is not disproved by "Some biological women aren't able to have periods". Stop for a while and think about your failure in basic language comprehension. It might help you in the future.

Do you have any thoughts about putting children who are not yet in their teens on a medical pathway that will often lead to them being sterilised and without sexual function?

Nobody hates trans people here. There is a natural concern about the erosion of women’s safe spaces leaving women and children exposed to GRAs.

If you are trying to understand as you say, then you need to do some reading, and some listening, rather than giving your opinions to people who have heard them many times before. Some of the posters on here have transgender people in their lives (me included) and understand the situation very well actually. Saying twaw and tmam doesn't make it so, many transgender don't believe this either btw, and putting up pictures of people who can pass as their desired gender doesn't change anything, however much you want it to.

women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it?

Yes, it is true. "Only women have periods" is not the same statement as "all women have periods". Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

What about communal changing rooms where there are no private cubicles (eg gyms, some swimming pools)?

Can you understand why some women might feel uncomfortable changing in front of people who have male genitalia?

my impression of trans people are those who don't identify with the gender of their body and go through procedures (whether it be the full blown transition or taking medication) to make them identify more with the gender they feel they are

bodies don't have a gender.

why do you think people feel themselves better suited to be members of the opposite sex? do you think it is because of the clothes they like to wear and the way they like to behave?

does that not see a bit um.......sexist to you?

For things like toilets, there is an element of if you come in, do your business and leave and no one notices any behaviour out of the ordinary, that's fine.

What concerns me is the time (late evening, in a station) I came out of a cubicle and found a man standing outside it, not queuing, there were two empty cubicles and it was just the two of us in there. He was mostly blocking the door. I am also a very tall woman and literally dragged him out of the toilets and attracted the attention of staff.

I would have been very surprised if he had been a transwoman given appearance, and that he was clearly blocking me into the cubicle, but if he had said he was it would have been me committing a hate crime for removing him from the ladies.

How do you protect women in those circumstances?

It's people like my ex I have an issue with considering he told me "the best thing about the GRA is that you'll have no where I cant access".

So your ex wouldn't go in to a toilet marked female to get to you if he really wanted to? Anyone who wants to get to someone will get to to them

I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through

I genuinely think you need to consider what female people actually go through. And need. And feel. Try a little equality in your empathy and valuing of people, and you might understand a little better. Female people's sex based needs don't just go away because trans people have needs.

And as I frequently ask: while there will be female people of sufficient privilege to share mixed sex spaces and see no problems, what do you suggest society does with the many female people who are unable to share mixed sex spaces at all? Many for reasons of culture, faith, disability, trauma - I assume you have an interest in intersectionality and avoiding exclusion? Should female spaces exclude a percentage of females to allow male born people wider choice of both spaces?

and go through procedures (whether it be the full blown transition or taking medication)
So are you excluding people who don't have surgery or take medication from your definition of transgender?

What would you suggest trans people need to consider? (Genuine question I'm learning)

The fact that if anyone can say they are a trans women, anyone can end up in a woman’s prison. Not just nice trans folk. Very male rapists of women too.

The fact that if trans women are women and should be considered as such by sporting bodies, biological women might as well just not bother participating in professional sport. They won’t, and don’t, win against people who have experienced male puberty.

The fact that teenagers are notoriously fickle and sending them down the hormone treatment root can have terrible consequences physically and mentally that they will not be emotionally ready to cope with.

"only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue?"

I do wish we taught logic in our schools, as some other countries do. Only women have periods does not mean that all women have periods and if you don't have periods you are not a woman. This is pretty basic stuff.

Trans men have periods because their gender identity is male but their biological sex is female.

@truthisarevolutionaryact "I think you've misunderstood OP. There's no hatred of trans people on here."

hahahhahahahhahahhaha - yeah right - you sound exactly like someone who says i'm not a racist but - or I have no problem with gay people but they shouldn't be allowed to get married.

OP, You don't need any medication, hormones or surgery to be trans. you don't need any medication, hormones or surgery to get a gender recognition certificate either and be legally the opposite sex. It's not part of the criteria. And never has been.

Something like 80 or 90% of all transwomen retain their genitalia. And remain attracted to women.

The ironic thing about those pictures is theyd be hugely triggering for the average trans person as they will never ever pass that well.

Sorry but it's a fact. And they know it.

My ex used to spend hours looking at the pictures the hairy panty wearers post. All of 20year old natal females.

That's unhealthy for a 40 year old woman to be aspiring to never mind someone male.

I found a great recipe for banana bread the other day.

Yes, it is true. "Only women have periods" is not the same statement as "all women have periods". Thanks for coming to my TED talk

Is it transgender people? Or is it the concept of GRA? Have you ever been on a bus and a creepy guy sits beside you, chats to you and when you get off at the bus station you head for the loos knowing that he can't follow? Have you ever had a guy in the pub who's a bit too persistent and you make an excuse and head to the loo for 15 minutes? Now imagine that there is no female only space. Suddenly creepy guy can follow you into the loo, persistent pub guy can come in and look for you.

What if you've experienced sexual abuse, rape, domestic violence at the hands of a man. There is now no female spaces. No prison, no hospital ward, no mental health facility, no such thing as a women's refuge.

Unfortunately for many women, highlighting these issues results in labels of transphobia, TERF (which is in itself a political ideology based on logic and the rejection of the concept of gender), and sexualised bullying.

All seems creepily familiar to misogyny? It is.

I don't hate anyone. What I do hate however, is being called a bigot, a transphobe and any other assortment of names just for defending the rights of women and girls.

So your ex wouldn't go in to a toilet marked female to get to you if he really wanted to? Anyone who wants to get to someone will get to to them

Ah. So I assume you don't lock your car when you leave it, or your house when you go out, or agree there should be DBS checks for those working with vulnerable people?

If you look into how safeguarding as a practice works, you may find the 'swiss cheese' analogy informative.

@ShadowMane not as a man he wouldnt. He told me. He literally told me if he did it as a man he knows people would say something.

@ShadowMane

It's people like my ex I have an issue with considering he told me "the best thing about the GRA is that you'll have no where I cant access".

So your ex wouldn't go in to a toilet marked female to get to you if he really wanted to? Anyone who wants to get to someone will get to to them

that's it, I'm now in favour of doing away with all safeguarding because nasty people will try really hard to do nasty things