Rebecca Wrong-Daily Sacked

[Sexnotgender]

For apparently sharing something anti-Semitic.

Oh dear how sad.

lydia7986

Thank you, that's a really helpful explanation.

@chomalungma

And it can't 'occupy' land where Jewish people have lived since the beginning of recorded history. Jews aren't 'occupying' land which belonged to their ancestors. They belong there. It's clear you have a problem with the world's only Jewish state, and what kind of problem that might be

I have a problem with any country that occupies somewhere and uses its power to oppress the people who lived there.

China and Tibet is another example.

So yes - I have a problem with Israel in the Occupied territories
I have a problem with China and Tibet
I have a problem with Turkey and Northern Cyprus

Israel belongs to the ranks of other countries that have occupied other countries.

'I have a problem with any country that occupies somewhere and uses its power to oppress the people who lived there.' Great, I'm sure everyone would agree with you. But I've already explained that Jews have lived on that land for thousands of years. They aren't 'occupying' anything because it's their own land. The problem is that the Palestinians have also lived there for thousands of years and they want exclusive use of the land. They've elected a paramilitary organisation whose charter pledges to drive every last Jew in the middle east into the sea. And if you're buying into their rhetoric, you might be ignorant of this. Or it could be that you know about it all too well.

You can have a problem with China and Tibet, Turkey and Northern Cyprus all you like but they are different situations.

'Israel belongs to the ranks of other countries that have occupied other countries.'
In your head, maybe. I've explained about how Israel was created by UN charter. Jews didn't 'occupy the land'. I don't know how it can be made more simple.

I agree this is a gift to Kier - he gets to make an example of anyone who is vaguely anit-semetic and show he is cracking down on it (unlike Corbyn), gets to get rid of RLB who really doesn't come across as the brightest of bulbs, and gets to show the Momentum lot that he is not going to take their shit.

I think the next few years are going to be quite interesting in the Labour Party

And it can't 'occupy' land where Jewish people have lived since the beginning of recorded history.

The Jewish people have not lived in Israel since the beginning of recorded history. They didn’t get there until Numbers. At which point occupied the land.

I don't know how it can be made more simple

So what are your views on the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza?

@Xenia

I am hoping for 10 years of Tory rule so this is no great loss but we really have gone too far in sacking people for just forwarding things on or exercising freedom of speech. It is now like those McCarthy anti communist days in the USA. We somehow need to move back to a time of freedom including no CV19 restrictions and back to more freedom of speech and respect for the views of others.

You’ve had ten years of Tory rule and look where that’s got us. Delighted we have a Labour leader with some principles and back bone.

Ridiculous, she didn't say anything antisemitic.

[quote SuckingDieselFella]@SixesAndEights
"I believe that much of the "anti semitism" in Labour is actually anyone daring to criticise the State of Israel. "

In that case you're part of the problem. Jackie Walker and Ken Livingston weren't expelled because they criticised the state of Israel. You only have to look at Rachel Riley's twitter abuse to know that it's nothing to do with Israel.

"When this blew up with Jeremy Corbyn back in the day, there was some footage of him attending a Jewish ceremony, but they were the "wrong" kind of Jews as they were sympathetic to Palestinians."

Jewdas are very much the wrong kind of Jews. If you mock the Torah then that's how other Jews will see you. www.jewdas.org/about/ I can see what the attraction was for Corbyn though. They're ideologically sound too. What's not to like?

"I think it's quite amazing how the Israeli powers that be have managed to make anything criticising Israel, anti-Semetic. Ergo you cannot do so."

This has been explained but I'll try and put it simply. Criticising Israel is perfectly reasonable if you hold it to the standards of any other democracy. If you hold it to different standards, you have an issue with it being the world's only Jewish state. And we know what that issue might be.[/quote]
I'll try and put it simply

That's very patronising kind of you.

I hold every country/State to the standards of good democracy. Glad that's cleared that up.

KS used the situation to his own political advantage and Labour needs a decisive leader who can win elections.

But I just wish he hadn't used cancel culture to sack RLB. I dont think it is ever right to sack someone for sharing a mainstream news article.

I take it the journalist who wrote this fact checked the article...about Israeli security forces training Minnesota officers/sharing techniques at a conference.?

www.mprnews.org/story/2012/06/25/minn-police-learn-from-israeli-counter-terrorism-conference?fbclid=IwAR1NeWs4uMcHm8cPIMF3vDRSYje7-hctQBsbiN0Xt-1LB4577Svw9V6gYew

@chomalungma

Criticising Israel is perfectly reasonable if you hold it to the standards of any other democracy. If you hold it to different standards, you have an issue with it being the world's only Jewish stat

I think Israel should be held up to the standards of any democracy - especially when it comes to human rights. Sometimes what they do doesn't live up to those standards and they get criticised. Just as any democracy should be.

I agree. But it's clear from your repeated comments about 'occupation' that you have other issues with the world's only Jewish state. Israel was established by the UN. If you're going to argue about democracy you have no choice but to respect its legitimacy.

Tell us what you think of human rights under Hamas. If you're gay you'll be thrown off a building. Same if you're a political opponent. Using children as suicide bombers and human shields. Freedom of religion? Forget it. Google what has happened to Palestinian Christians. Gaza is hardly a bastion of feminism either.

You're cool with all of that?

It was dog whistle writing by Peake and endorsement on the part of RLB. An article about racism singles out Israel as the exception who provided training. That’s dog whistle racism. Peake is an actress who can hold whatever racist thoughts she wants. Just like Mel Gideon. RLB is supposed to represent a great party who should condemn this ignorance and nastiness.

People on the extreme left have been deaf to the dog whistle when it comes to anti semitism. Just like the racists who deny and remain tone deaf to other forms of racism. Both these women can say what they want and blow their whistles. That’s not the point. But there is no place for them on the front bench of the Labour Party or the Conservative party.

Kier knows that the vast, vast majority of the electorate and reality exists outside of twitter. He knows that it doesn't matter if all of twitter has a red rose by their handle and everyone is virtue signalling about how much they love Labour and hate then awful Tories. In real life, people don't give a fuck about what your pronouns are, don't care about being woke, dont care about how the look to others - because inside the ballot box it doesn't matter.

Kier knows all this, he knows what he needs to do if Labour are to ever get elected again. Owen et al are not going to like it.

[quote JacobReesMogadishu]I take it the journalist who wrote this fact checked the article...about Israeli security forces training Minnesota officers/sharing techniques at a conference.?

www.mprnews.org/story/2012/06/25/minn-police-learn-from-israeli-counter-terrorism-conference?fbclid=IwAR1NeWs4uMcHm8cPIMF3vDRSYje7-hctQBsbiN0Xt-1LB4577Svw9V6gYew[/quote]
Did you read it before you posted?

Can you indicate the part where they trained officers in kneeling on black people's necks?

"Deputy Consul Shahar Arieli said Israeli law enforcement officers shared techniques to prevent terrorist acts, such as suicide bombings.

"We have a police commander who is speaking from the point of view of the police chief," Arieli said. "And we have a bomb tech specialist who is actually speaking about the techniques and the improvised explosive devices that were used by the terrorists.""

The half-day conference briefly touches on concerns that law enforcement operations could violate civil rights, but mostly focuses on terrorism prevention techniques," Arieli said.

I think she's a nob (as is Maxine peak to be honest) but I hate this new culture where one mistake makes someone lose their job. It is entirely possible she was going with the main substance of the article as opposed to that one element. I don't think we should celebrate a woman losing her job - even if she is a complete twat

For the hard of thinking, I think the difference between criticising Israeli government policy legitimately and being antisemitic could be illustrated by the following examples:

1. "I have my reservations about the way checkpoints between the occupied territories and Israel are managed by the Israeli Defence Force (whose terms of engagement are of course set ultimately by their government), and some of the policing there - reservations also voiced by a number of Israelis, including opposition politicians within Israel." Not antisemitic as far as I'm aware. (And in my twenties I could, and would, have made similar points about the actions of British troops and the UDF in Northern Ireland - reservations shared by my cousin who had actually served in Northern Ireland.)

2. "I'm going to take a racist incident in one country - the USA - with a long and dishonourable history of racism up to and including chattel slavery, and try to implicate an entirely separate country - Israel - via a tenuous and almost certainly spurious link to do with sharing policing techniques..." Antisemitic as it comes.

@chomalungma

She's too dim (before you even start on the anti-semitism) to be shadow education secretary

We have a journalist as Prime Minister

She studied Politics and Sociology at Manchester Metropolitan University, then completed "various part-time law conversion and solicitors' courses."[8] She has worked for the law firm Pinsent Masons[9] and in 2003, she began working in landlord and tenant law for the law firm Halliwells; she was admitted as a solicitor on 1 November 2007 and moved that year to work for Hill Dickinson,[9][10][11] specialising in commercial law, commercial property, NHS contracts and NHS estates.[5]

Meanwhile, the current Education Secretary was a Director of a china firm.

A pal of mine is a solicitor. He's a lovely, lovely guy, but boy is he dimmer than a lorry load of short planks!

He learnt what he had to learn for his work, but he doesn't go beyond the kind of intelligence required to learn the law by rote and apply it.

It's perfectly reasonable to think other solicitors are similar.

Of course, I'm certainly not arguing against at least half the government being dimwits too.

I agree. But it's clear from your repeated comments about 'occupation' that you have other issues with the world's only Jewish state. Israel was established by the UN. If you're going to argue about democracy you have no choice but to respect its legitimacy

Tell us what you think of human rights under Hamas. If you're gay you'll be thrown off a building. Same if you're a political opponent. Using children as suicide bombers and human shields. Freedom of religion? Forget it. Google what has happened to Palestinian Christians. Gaza is hardly a bastion of feminism either

You're cool with all of that

1. I have a problem with countries that illegally occupy other countries and have an issue with human rights.

2. The fact it's the only Jewish state is irrelevant in this context. It's one of the countries that has illegally occupied other countries

3. I have an issue with Hamas and the way it treats people.

Both things can be true

Israel was the creation of British colonialism, who along with other westerns powers divided up areas of land preiously ruled by the Ottoman Empire. eg Lebanon, Syria etc.. And as with all great British colonial blunders have created historical divisions that will haunt us for years. eg Northern Ireland, partition of India and the Kudish people being divided up between 3 countries and denied their own.

The difference was that Israel (which even in pre history time was only a district within wider Palestine) was the only country where people from other countries, ie Europe were told they would be given other people's land.

The UN resolution was as much to do with resolving the refugee crisis after the end of WWII and that fact that many countries including the US imposed strict quotas on the number of Jewish refugees they would accept.

The creation of Israel was a Europen solution to Europe's anti semitism, and they used their colonial powers to impose this solution on a country and people who had no part in European antisemitism and the Nazi programs.

@chomalungma

I don't know how it can be made more simple

So what are your views on the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza?

My views are that it isn't simple.

If you're going to copy what I wrote about one topic and apply it to something different, then you may be looking for the simplest answers. Ones that you can tweet, like and share. Twitter analytics are great if you're into that kind of thing. But real history takes a lot more thinking than pressing the retweet button.

I don't think we should celebrate a woman losing her job - even if she is a complete twat

Politicians of either sex should lose their job for a mistake of this magnitude (set against the ongoing problem with antisemitism within the Labour Party, there's no way Long Bailey could have not known she shouldn't have endorsed this - and if she still thought it was a good idea, despite knowing Starmer had said he was determined to tackle antisemitism, and also knowing that she was only there on sufferance as a token olive branch to the far left, then she's also severely lacking in political judgement.)

I want women to be given a fair chance in the world, something all too often denied to us, and I want the world to be changed to ensure that fairness by tackling systemic and institutional sexism (e.g. issues round sexist stereotyping in education, women losing their jobs for getting pregnant, etc.)

That doesn't mean I support any woman even when she's made a complete prat of herself and shown herself not to have the basic political acumen necessary to do her job.

There's lots of good, talented, committed women in the Labour party (including some of those who've succumbed to the genderist nonsense but are otherwise sound). Just that Long Bailey isn't one of them.

@stumbledin

Israel was the creation of British colonialism, who along with other westerns powers divided up areas of land preiously ruled by the Ottoman Empire. eg Lebanon, Syria etc.. And as with all great British colonial blunders have created historical divisions that will haunt us for years. eg Northern Ireland, partition of India and the Kudish people being divided up between 3 countries and denied their own.

The difference was that Israel (which even in pre history time was only a district within wider Palestine) was the only country where people from other countries, ie Europe were told they would be given other people's land.

The UN resolution was as much to do with resolving the refugee crisis after the end of WWII and that fact that many countries including the US imposed strict quotas on the number of Jewish refugees they would accept.

The creation of Israel was a Europen solution to Europe's anti semitism, and they used their colonial powers to impose this solution on a country and people who had no part in European antisemitism and the Nazi programs.

So much Marxist nonsense that it's difficult to know where to start.

Israel was established by the UN. If you're going to argue about democracy you have no choice but to respect its legitimacy.

I have no argument at all with the existence of Israel but I think you are missing out an awful lot of detail. The UN supported the establishment of two independent states (yes, I know, it was the Arab side which rejected it- doesn't change that this is what the UN planned) and has raised its concerns many, many times over Palestinian territory occupied by Israel and the impact on Palestinian people of some of the actions of the Jewish state.

@chomalungma

I agree. But it's clear from your repeated comments about 'occupation' that you have other issues with the world's only Jewish state. Israel was established by the UN. If you're going to argue about democracy you have no choice but to respect its legitimacy

Tell us what you think of human rights under Hamas. If you're gay you'll be thrown off a building. Same if you're a political opponent. Using children as suicide bombers and human shields. Freedom of religion? Forget it. Google what has happened to Palestinian Christians. Gaza is hardly a bastion of feminism either

You're cool with all of that

1. I have a problem with countries that illegally occupy other countries and have an issue with human rights.

2. The fact it's the only Jewish state is irrelevant in this context. It's one of the countries that has illegally occupied other countries

3. I have an issue with Hamas and the way it treats people.

Both things can be true

If you're just going to repeat 'illegally occupy' over and over there isn't an intelligent discussion to be had.

Israel was established by the UN. 1947

War

1967 UN Security resolution 242 calling for Israel to withdraw from conquered land.

Not quite as clear cut as you suggest.